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pkun
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harpsichord effect
« on: Aug 14th, 2002, 8:17am » |
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Hi,
lately I tried to made a „true“ harpsichord tone on my old roland jv-30 synthesizer. I play it with 88 key weighted action keyboard (yamaha kx88 ). (You know, harpsichord make specially noise when a player take up his hand from a keys)
In MIDIOX I tipped a following mapping:
Chan 1 | Message NoteOn | * * | Velocity 24-127 | * || Chan 1 | Message NoteOn | * * | Velocity 90-90 |
it make harpsichord on the constant loudness. (Velocity 90)
On Chanell 2 I choose a “dull noise”, it remind on this harpsichord quality, when it plays with a weak velocity. (The same happend a little later, when you take up your hands from a keys) So I choose 1-23 area for this “dull harpsichord noise”. My keyboards recognizes NoteOn=0 as NoteOff event, (by the way, it’s funny, my yamaha kx88 can’t transmitted velocity between 1-15, but on Implementation Chart you can read - it can! I proof it with MIDIOX  )
Chan 1 | Message NoteOn | * * | Velocity 1-23 | * || Chan 2 | Message NoteOn | * * | Velocity 80-80 |
further i mapped NoteOff (by yamaha and roland NoteOn=0) to Chan 2 NoteOn with constant velocity 80. (Now you take up your hands from a keys, I would like to have any keyboard with NoteOff Velocity with 0-127 area in this moment, do you know any model?)
Chan 1 | Message NoteOn | * * | Velocity 0-0 | CLONE || Chan 2 | Message NoteOn | * * | Velocity 80-80 |
I cloned this midi events (NoteOn) 2 time (first time see above) with velocity 0 (NoteOff) for Chan 1 and Chan 2
Chan 1 | Message NoteOn | * * | Velocity 0-0 | CLONE || Chan 1 | Message NoteOn | * * | Velocity 0-0 |
Chan 1 | Message NoteOn | * * | Velocity 0-0 | * || Chan 2 | Message NoteOn | * * | Velocity 0-0
It works very good, when I play... only 1 Note!!!. by more notes this “dull harpsichord noise” is not the same. I suppose it plays not on Chan 2 but Chan 1 (real harpsichord) for very very, very short time. What you think about it? Perhaps it is not possible? I think, perhaps the last NoteOff (NoteOn=0) events comes to quickly? Can I delayed it?
Best, Piotrek
Sorry for my english ;-(
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Jamie OConnell
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Re: harpsichord effect
« Reply #1 on: Aug 15th, 2002, 11:55am » |
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If I understand correctly, you are creating a Harpsichord patch by layering a patch on 2 channels, and by mapping NoteOff (NoteOn with 0 velocity) to a NoteOn.
Unfortunately MIDI-OX does not have the ability to enter delays: notes are mapped in the low-level ISR as they are received and resent. On thing you might try is to map the NoteOff (NoteOn with 0 velocity) first to a NoteOn with positive velocity and then clone it to a real NoteOff message. Your synth will respond to a real NoteOff message as well as to a NoteOn with 0 velocity.
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pkun
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Re: harpsichord effect
« Reply #2 on: Aug 18th, 2002, 5:27am » |
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I get up with my harpsichord! My problem was GS RESET. Without it I had the same patch on channel 2 as channel 1 and this “dull harpsichord noise” was to loud. (GM don’t use NRPN). But I have new problem. When I send GS RESET with *.oxm file, my computer “go dead” with blue screen and I have to press the reset button on my CPU to restart. Only manually it’s possible to send it - “Actions - Send - Gs On”. Why?
I’m using a PD440FX board running with a Pentium II MMX-266, Midi Express XT Console by Unicorn, WinMe (MIDI-Ox ver. 6.4.9.333) DirectX 8.0.
Thanks for any help! (my english is not better, but I hope you understand me, sorry!)
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I start my mapping with:
* Ctrl 67 67 * * x | * SYSEX F0 41 10 42 12 40 00 7F 00
* Ctrl 67 67 * * x | 1 ProgChg 6 6 * *
* Ctrl 67 67 * * | 2 ProgChg 6 6 * *
...
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PS. If anybody have interest an my GS-harpsichord, so I can send *.oxm file with e-mail.
Piotrek
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Jamie OConnell
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Re: harpsichord effect
« Reply #3 on: Aug 18th, 2002, 1:21pm » |
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I hope the first line in your map is not the full SysEx mssage, because it is missing the end. The complete GS Reset is:
F0 41 10 42 12 40 00 7F 00 41 F7
Beyond that, I would not recommend mapping a GS-Reset SysEx message to a controller. GS-Reset is a very disruptive message on many Synthesizers: my Yamaha MU-100R takes a second or more to recover from this message and re-initialize the mode. In fact, on my synth the Harpsichord program change on 1 and 2 never takes effect because it is sent while the MU100 is recovering from GS-Reset. You have it mapped so that any message sent on CC:67 triggers another SysEx. It would be OK if CC:67 is sent very infrequently, but I have no way of knowing if that's the case. To be safe maybe you could map it to only one value of CC:67 (64 is mid range):
* Ctrl 67 67 64 64 x | * SYSEX F0 41 10 42 12 40 00 7F 00 41 F7
* Ctrl 67 67 64 64 x | 1 ProgChg 6 6 * *
* Ctrl 67 67 64 64 | 2 ProgChg 6 6 * *
I don't fully understand why you want to issue the GS-Reset? Can you instead set volume, program change, and other controller values?
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| « Last Edit: Aug 18th, 2002, 1:39pm by Jamie OConnell » |
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pkun
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Re: harpsichord effect
« Reply #4 on: Aug 19th, 2002, 7:51am » |
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You are right, but only in my forum's message I did this mistake. Beyond that, if I send only sysex message alone (without mapping) I got blue screen too... I have to send GS On manually from menu “Actions - Send - Gs On” So works my computer without problems. Why? It's not the same message? Without it my roland works in GM modus and don't received NRPN.
Here is my gs-harpsichord:
* Ctrl 67 67 | 64 64 x F0 41 10 42 12 40 00 7F 00 41 F7
| Problem  ( it works only with “Actions - Send - Gs On”
* Ctrl 67 67 | 64 64 x 1 ProgChg 6 6 | * *
* Ctrl 67 67 | 64 64 2 ProgChg 6 6 | * *
1 NoteOn 22 107 | 40 127 x 1 Ctrl 10 10 | 0 127
| My keyboard have 88 keys
1 NoteOn 22 107 | 40 127 1 NoteOn 21 106 | 100 100
1 NoteOn 22 107 | 1 39 x 2 Ctrl 10 10 | 0 127
1 NoteOn 22 107 | 1 39 x 2 NoteOn 21 106 | 1 60
1 NoteOn 22 107 | 1 39 2 NoteOn 21 106 | 0 0
| I play with a'=410Hz
1 NoteOn 22 107 | 0 0 x 2 Ctrl 10 10 | 0 127
1 NoteOn 22 107 | 0 0 x 1 NoteOn 21 106 | 0 0
1 NoteOn 22 107 | 0 0 x 2 NoteOn 21 106 | 40 40
1 NoteOn 22 107 | 0 0 2 NoteOn 21 106 | 0 0
* Ctrl 64 64 | 127 127 x 2 NRPN 160 160 |1 1
* Ctrl 64 64 | 127 127 x 2 NRPN 227 227 |5888 5888
* Ctrl 64 64 | 127 127 x 2 NRPN 228 228 |2687 2687
* Ctrl 64 64 | 127 127 x 2 NRPN 230 230 |8192 8192
* Ctrl 64 64 | 127 127 * Ctrl 64 64 | 0 0
* Ctrl 64 64 | 0 0 * Discard
| with sustain I can switch “dull harpsichord noise” off
1 NoteOn 21 21 | 1 127 x 1 NRPN 160 160 | 8192 8192
1 NoteOn 21 21 | 1 127 x 2 NRPN 160 160 | 10240 10240
1 NoteOn 21 21 | 1 127 x 1 NRPN 227 227 | 8192 8192
1 NoteOn 21 21 | 1 127 x 2 NRPN 227 227 | 5888 5888
1 NoteOn 21 21 | 1 127 x 1 NRPN 228 228 | 8192 8192
1 NoteOn 21 21 | 1 127 x 2 NRPN 228 228 | 2687 2687
1 NoteOn 21 21 | 1 127 x 1 NRPN 230 230 | 8192 8192
1 NoteOn 21 21 | 1 127 2 NRPN 230 230 | 8192 8192
1 NoteOn 21 21 | 0 0 * Discard
| with key 21 harpsichord plays "forte"
1 NoteOn 108 108 | 1 127 x 1 NRPN 160 160 | 8192 8192
1 NoteOn 108 108 | 1 127 x 2 NRPN 160 160 | 10240 10240
1 NoteOn 108 108 | 1 127 x 1 NRPN 227 227 | 6272 6272
1 NoteOn 108 108 | 1 127 x 2 NRPN 227 227 | 5888 5888
1 NoteOn 108 108 | 1 127 x 1 NRPN 228 228 | 7808 7808
1 NoteOn 108 108 | 1 127 x 2 NRPN 228 228 | 2687 2687
1 NoteOn 108 108 | 1 127 x 1 NRPN 230 230 | 7296 7296
1 NoteOn 108 108 | 1 127 2 NRPN 230 230 | 8192 8192
1 NoteOn 108 108 | 0 0 * Discard
|with key 108 harpsichord plays "piano"
* ChanAft 0 126 | * * * Discard
* ChanAft 127 127 | * * x 2 NRPN 160 160 | 10240 10240
* ChanAft 127 127 | * * x 2 NRPN 227 227 | 5888 5888
* ChanAft 127 127 | * * x 2 NRPN 228 228 | 2687 2687
* ChanAft 127 127 | * * 2 NRPN 230 230 | 8192 8192
with ChanAft I can switch “dull harpsichord noise” on
Piotrek
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Jamie OConnell
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Re: harpsichord effect
« Reply #5 on: Aug 19th, 2002, 5:16pm » |
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Quote:| Beyond that, if I send only sysex message alone (without mapping) I got blue screen too... |
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What info does the blue screen give (if any)? Try running Dr. Watson, to see if you can trap the error. If you do, send me the Dr. Watson Log.
I don't have any trouble sending the message here, but I'm using a different interface (Yamaha UX256) and different OS (Win XP Pro).
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| « Last Edit: Aug 19th, 2002, 5:16pm by Jamie OConnell » |
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pkun
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Re: harpsichord effect
« Reply #6 on: Aug 20th, 2002, 2:52am » |
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blue screen mesagge:
Fehler (Error): 0D : 2F17 : 00000A12
Dr. Watson:
MIDI-OX 16Bit thunked MIDI library verwendete eine nicht initialisierte Variable, versuchte auf den Speicher oder eine freigegebene DLL zuzugreifen oder fand einen nicht angegebenen Fehler.
Modul: MMCBK16.DLL
Beschreibung: MIDI-OX 16Bit thunked MIDI library
Version: 6.4.9.333
Produkt: MIDI-OX
Hersteller: MIDI-OX Computing
I use german Windows ME
Piotrek
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MightyD
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Re: harpsichord effect
« Reply #7 on: Sep 12th, 2002, 5:22am » |
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Just found this message in passing and I wanted to explain why GS reset is sometimes necessary on the Roland VSC.
If you don't like the vibrato speed, sending a GS reset then an NRPN message is the only way to fix it. Why they did this I don't know, don't ask.
BTW, please add another voice for an in-place checksum calculator.
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elya
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Re: harpsichord effect
« Reply #8 on: Apr 11th, 2003, 8:07am » |
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yes, there is a release velocity controller and it's the Alesis QS8.2. (http://www.Alesis.com; mailto:support@alesis.com)
I'm sure it'll help you customize your harpsichord for released hammer noise (as well as forte pianos 
If you need a real 88 piano master keyboard you may check the Fatar's SL880 serie. (though, it miss a POLY pressure {it has only chanell aftertouch} and doesn't have release velocity) (http://studiologic.net/fatar-menu.htm ; mailto:fatar@musicindustries.com)
with the best wishes
Elya
PS: Fatar now introduced their new line of SL880&990, so maybe the new line of the 1100&2001 will include poly aftertouch and release velocity ...
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