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Topic: Controlling an automated analog mixer via MIDI (Read 2040 times) |
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Mach
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MIDI-OX Rules!
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Controlling an automated analog mixer via MIDI
« on: Mar 12th, 2007, 8:20pm » |
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Hi there,
I was wondering if you could assist me in setting up and controlling an automated analog desk via MIDI from Pro Tools.
I use PT LE 7.1 with MPT and Command 8 control surface on a Windows XP PC.
I recently acquired a Soundtracs Topaz Project 8 24-8-2 console with VCA automation for channel volume and mute.
Normally this desk is programmed via a Windows utility provided by Soundtracs, which is pretty outdated (only works in Windows 3.11 and a bit shakey in W95, and is not easily syncable to currents systems etc.)
The automation controller unit is entirely controlled via MIDI and I have its MIDI Specifications in the official documentation that came with the unit.
I would like to ditch this user-unfriendly programming interface and control the desk straight from within Pro Tools using its MIDI tracks.
I was told that I can do this with MIDI-OX, which I have downloaded and installed, but I'm not quite sure how to map it to make this work.
What I would like to do is, I would like to be able to create 24 MIDI tracks within Pro Tools and assign each of them to one input channel of the Topaz connected to a MIDI output on Digi002R, and make Topaz Automation Interface control the VCAs according to the CC instructions coming from Pro Tools' respective MIDI channels' volume and mute information in real time.
If I can achieve this, I will be able to physically control the Topaz VCAs via Command 8's touch sensitive faders as well, because my current Command 8 control surface can also talk to Pro Tools' MIDI tracks in a similar manner (however the MIDI instructions used to carry out this may be handled totally different than Topaz's specifications, which is where I need help).
So I was wondering if anybody could help me set MIDI-OX as a little translator that will convert Pro Tools' mute and volume instructions into a form that Topaz 8 Automation CPU card can understand. Or let me know if it is possible to configure MIDI-OX and Pro Tools to do this without having to use a separate MIDI plugin at all.
It's a one way open loop communication (from Pro Tools to Topaz only). No feedback coming back from Topaz into Pro Tools.
Topaz' MIDI Specification is as follows:
The CPU card is entirely controlled by MIDI.
Standard MIDI
System reset FFh : Everything muted
Controllers 0...31 of MIDI channel CC are 7-bit values of faders 1...32
Note On, Note Nos 0...31 (-C2...G0), vel=0, MIDI Channel CC are Channel Mutes for Channels 1...32
Note On, Note Nos 0...31 (-C2...G0), vel>0, MIDI Channel CC are Channel Un-Mutes for Channels 1...32
[cc: MIDI Channel CC is selected using the front panel switch on Automation Interface)
Custom SysEx Messages
SysEx Packed 32-mute block [5 bytes data; message 9 bytes; 2.9ms]
SysEx packed 8-fader block [16 bytes data; message 20 bytes; 6.4ms]
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MIDI SysEx Message Format
Sysex MFR ID Message ID Data.... EOX (or any other status byte)
F0 2E 7-bit 7bit F7
-------------------------------------------------------------
Message ID Data
0 Nul
1 Mute block Mute bits for chs 1...7, 8...14, 15...21, 22...28, 29...35
2 Fader block 0 ch1:lsb,msb...ch8:lsb,msb
4 Fader block 1 ch9:lsb,msb...ch16:lsb,msb
8 Fader block 2 ch17:lsb,msb...ch24:lsb,msb
16 Fader block 3 ch25:lsb,msb...ch32:lsb,msb
Data
lsb first in data stream
msb lsb
0000 000n 0nnn nnnn
--------------------------------------------------------------
Messages
9n nn vv - nn is note number, vv is velocity
Bn cn dd - cn is controller no, dd is data
F0 2E 01 mm mm mm mm mm F7 - mm is mute map for 7 channels
F0 2E 02 ll mm ll mm ll mm ll mm ll mm F7 - ll is lsb, mm is msb
F0 2E 03 ll mm ll mm ll mm ll mm ll mm F7
F0 2E 04 ll mm ll mm ll mm ll mm ll mm F7
F0 2E 05 ll mm ll mm ll mm ll mm ll mm F7
---------------------------------------------------------------
Not meaning to bribe or negotiate it or anything, but if I can get this thing work, then I will be more than happy to buy a licence to return your contribution to my system, although it will be for personal use. That will be huge.
Thanking you for your time in advance.
M Ozturk
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| « Last Edit: Mar 12th, 2007, 8:27pm by Mach » |
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Peter L Jones
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Re: Controlling an automated analog mixer via MIDI
« Reply #1 on: Mar 13th, 2007, 4:09am » |
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on Mar 12th, 2007, 8:20pm, Mach wrote:System reset FFh : Everything muted
Controllers 0...31 of MIDI channel CC are 7-bit values of faders 1...32
Note On, Note Nos 0...31 (-C2...G0), vel=0, MIDI Channel CC are Channel Mutes for Channels 1...32
Note On, Note Nos 0...31 (-C2...G0), vel>0, MIDI Channel CC are Channel Un-Mutes for Channels 1...32 |
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This looks like the only relevant bit.
The knob on the front of the unit states which of 16 MIDI channels the device will listen on. You then send MIDI CC#0 to 31 to control the faders and MIDI Notes 0 to 31 to control the mutes.
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"...Playing fast around the drums is one thing. But to play with people for others, to listen to, that's something else. That's a whole other world." -- Tony Williams
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Mach
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MIDI-OX Rules!
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Re: Controlling an automated analog mixer via MIDI
« Reply #2 on: Mar 13th, 2007, 6:20am » |
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Many thanks for the reply.
I'm assuming the system initialize character FFh and string start and end characters F0h and F7h are universal so they are generated and transmitted in any case, so there is no user control over them. That's fine.
Two questions:
- How do I insert new manufacturer ID into the newly created string?
How do I read and make sense of the log info MIDI-OX generates? I tapped it into Command 8 Surface In and Out ports while Pro Tools was open and communicating with C 8 through a session with exactly the same working template above (24 MIDI tracks etc), and got it read and log the MIDI events everytime I touched a fader both on C8 and the software mixer in turn, but I couldn't make a sense of the information on the screen. Is there a MIDI-OX manual that I can read?
If I can figure out how Pro Tools generates individual track ID, mute and volume info events then I'm almost there. I discovered the section in MIDI-OX that can do the translation.
As soon as I set this up, I'll set MIDI-OX to tap into C 8 surface In, and to send out the translated one to Topaz via one of the MIDI outputs in the system.
Is this logic correct?
Many thanks again,
M.
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| « Last Edit: Mar 13th, 2007, 6:28am by Mach » |
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Peter L Jones
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Re: Controlling an automated analog mixer via MIDI
« Reply #3 on: Mar 13th, 2007, 3:53pm » |
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on Mar 13th, 2007, 6:20am, Mach wrote:| Is there a MIDI-OX manual that I can read? |
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Yes, the built-in help.
I still think you're barking up the wrong tree going after the SysEx messages...
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"...Playing fast around the drums is one thing. But to play with people for others, to listen to, that's something else. That's a whole other world." -- Tony Williams
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barish
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MIDI-OX Rules!
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Re: Controlling an automated analog mixer via MIDI
« Reply #4 on: Mar 13th, 2007, 4:06pm » |
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Thanks for the heads up. I'm not so experienced in MIDI so it really does help.
What I'll do is, I'll just hook it up and start experimenting with the standard messages and see how it'll respond. Worse comes to worst, I'll reboot and start again. Nothing to lose.
I'll report how I get on for the record and future reference.
Digidesign sucks donkey balls when it comes to customer support in that kind of stuff by the way, excuse my Turkish. They still think that the MIDI specifications for Command 8 is a government secret. I bloody tapped MIDI-OX into the port and logged every single damn event. If I spent a day or two I could probably decipher the whole thing better than their own documentation could put down.
It's based on bloody Opcode thing anyway. The logic they adopt in trading really escapes me.
I seriously thought of reverse engineering and making public the bloody thing just for the sensation of it.
Anyway, the end of my daily rant, let me get on with this then.
Thanks again.
Mach
PS. BTW, I couldn't log in from this account for some reason last night so I had to re-register with the other one. And now I can't log in with the other one but I can with this one.
Weird.
Anyway, both of them are me.
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| « Last Edit: Mar 13th, 2007, 4:09pm by barish » |
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ter
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Re: Controlling an automated analog mixer via MIDI
« Reply #5 on: Mar 14th, 2007, 11:19pm » |
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Hello !
In first place ... sorry for my english.
I'm working in a similar problem. (the DOS program supplied with my hardware doesn't even run on windows)
May be my experience can help you in some way.
My hardware have 40 vca's controled by the pitch-bend sent for channel 9. This is all.
Conecting a korg M1 to the VCA's unit (channel 9 selected for this unit), holding the keys and moving the wheel (asigned to pitch bend) i been learn how my hardware works.
Volume, mutes and solos (like your) for one track pressing one key, or for a tracks-group pressing much keys .
All using only bender.
In my hardware, the note 1 don't affects VCA 1. Note 41 afects vca 1 .... note 80 afects vca 40.
In my case it's the pitch-bend parameter, but it could be the key-velocity parameter or something else.
I'm working in a program with volume, mutes and solos ... plus groups, scenes, and other ocurrences,
I think that knowing this you'll see it may be easy to build a program.
Bye
Mario
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barish
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Re: Controlling an automated analog mixer via MIDI
« Reply #6 on: Mar 16th, 2007, 4:25pm » |
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Thanks for the feedback Mario, I'll see how I get on and report back.
Cheers,
Mach
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