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Topic: Expression Data Mapping (Read 2771 times) |
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DigitalDick
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MIDI-OX Rules!
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Expression Data Mapping
« on: Jan 16th, 2018, 4:17am » |
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Hi,
I have a Yamaha EL70 organ that connects via Midi to my PC using MIDIOX which using midi then connects to a Roland Fantom XR.
The initial problem was that my expression pedal on my Yamaha Organ was not altering the volume through the Fantom XR for all channels, it only appeared to change the volume on Channel 16.
So within Midi OX I created data mapping for Channel 16 to be sent to channel 1 2 and 3 which kind of works.
The issue I have is its only changes the volume for about 1 second then reverts back to the normal volume again.
Can anyone give me any guidance on why this would be happening. The even is CNTRL and value between 1 nd 127 in the data mapping.
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Breath
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Re: Expression Data Mapping
« Reply #1 on: Jan 18th, 2018, 8:49pm » |
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Hi
Sorry about my slowness in replying.
On my HE8 the volume pedal puts out CC11 as I assume your does too.
In Midi there are two common volume controls. CC7 is the main one and is called "Volume". The other is "Expression" and is CC11 - what the organ's volume pedal is putting out.
Why two different volume controls?
In Midi it is quite often useful when you have, say, a trumpet section on channel 1, a trombone sect on channel 2 and a tuba on channel 3.
You use the CC7 to set the balance between Tr, Trom and Tuba and work CC11 on all three channels as a overall Brass control (called a group fader).
You can usually even swap them and use CC11 for balance (separate channels, separate values) and CC7 (on the three channels at the same value) for the group fader
Most synths (including the Fantom X) respond to both CC7 and CC11.
There are some settings that can alter how CC11 is applied
* Not received when Tone Receive Expression parameter (PATCH/MISC or RHYTHM/GENERAL) is OFF.
* Not received in Performance mode when Receive Expression parameter (PERFORM/MIDI) is OFF.
You can use Midi to change from CC11 to CC7 in the data mapping.
I would change the three lines in your Data mapping to send CC7 instead of CC11 to see if that changes anything.
On my HE8, moving the volume pedal outputs a stream of CC11 data and when it sits still (foot off) it dithers a little +-1 or so with only a couple of messages.
You can see these changes in the Input window in Midiox.
This is perfectly normal as the organ's volume pedal is analog and can quite often be positioned between digital values and other environmental causes can cause it to be different on the next scan of the pedal.
Can you see any messages coming from the organ that aren't caused by you?
Are there any other controllers or devices connected that might be changing CC7 or CC11?
Are you changing Performances on the Fantom - the Performances have their volumes (CC7) re-set and will change if you change the Performance.
Changing a Patch on a Part doesn't change the CC7 and CC11 setting.
Changing the register on the HE8 sends out Patch Change (PC) messages on channels 1,2,3 and 16.
The FantomX default channel for Performance change is 16.
This means a change in registration will change the performance and reset the volume.
See page 156 of the manual ...
Press menu and change to the System Miid page.
Change the Performance Midi channel to 15 or turn it OFF.
See page 155 to save the changes to your FanX.
Let me know how you get on.
All the best
Royce
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DigitalDick
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Re: Expression Data Mapping
« Reply #2 on: Jan 20th, 2018, 6:07am » |
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Hi Royce,
Thank you for your response.
Can you explain how i change a cc11 to 7 within the data mapping as i see no options for that ?
Also yes my pedal does send a cc11 that I can see.
And i have tried the settings within the Fantom but it still doesnt make a change unless I am doing something wrong.
Im very new to all this midi stuf so its a bit of a learning curve to me.
Thanks again Royce.
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Breath
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Re: Expression Data Mapping
« Reply #3 on: Jan 20th, 2018, 6:16pm » |
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The Data Map works by inserting lines (1 or many) that can filter (by using the Discard event type in the Output) or replace a selected Midi message with another.
Input
After pressing Clear and then inserting a 'Mapping" line, on the new dialog you select the the Midi messages you want to replace.
You must be specific about the Channel (1 to 16 or any) and the Event Type (including any type)
You can be very specific right down to removing/altering just one type of message, lets say CC7 on channel 1 when the value is 10
Channel =1
Event Type = Ctrl (this changes the labels of the data bytes to "Ctrl#" and "Amount")
Ctrl# => Min = 7 and Max = 7 (in other words just 7)
Amount=> Min = 10 and Max = 10
OR you can also select ranges for the Max and Min between 0 and 127
"-1" means anything (0 to 127)
So Min = 0 and Max = 127 is the same as both of them being -1
To swap one controller for another you setup Input
Channel =16
Event Type = Ctrl
Ctrl# Min = 11 and Max = 11
Amount Min = -1 Max = -1 (any CC11 on channel 16)
Setup the Output line similarly, but with the Ctrl# Min and Max = 7
You can change multiple elements at the same time.
Change the Output Channel to, say, 2. The output would be CC7 on channel 2 from CC11 messages on channel 16.
Your CC11 channel 16 messages are replaced.
If you wanted to change those CC11 messages to three messages, CC7 on channel 1, 2 and 3 you can.
On the Input tick the box "Pass original value on (Clone)".
This now creates a copy of the original message as well as the changed one.
This Cloned midi message is either output or, if there is a following line, presented to that next line for further action.
So your first line (Map) will be CC11 channel 16 to CC7 channel 1 with the clone ticked.
Press OK and then click the Insert button for another line.
Your next line will be CC11 channel 16 to CC7 channel 2 with the clone ticked. Yes, I wish there was a copy button too.
Your next line will be CC11 channel 16 to CC7 channel 3. Clone NOT ticked.
Now back on the main mapping dialog (with title "Translation Map") you will see a list of your three lines.
Check that all is correct ("*" means anything - the same as "-1")
You may see that the only non-Clone (no tick) is not the last line, where it should be.
Click on that line and use the up and down arrows to put it at the bottom.
Save the Map as "Ped2FanX.oxm"
Tick the "Turn Map On (after OK)"
Press OK
Now an incoming CC11 channel 16 value 23 from your organ should output to the port (Port Routing window) connected to the FanXR
CC7 channel 1 value 23
CC7 channel 2 value 23
CC7 channel 3 value 23
All the best
Royce
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