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Topic: feedback loop with both MIDI in and out connected (Read 467 times) |
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porkbot
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MIDI-OX Rules!
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feedback loop with both MIDI in and out connected
« on: Oct 15th, 2024, 6:56pm » |
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MY QUESTION:
How can I send Sysex commands to the K3m and receive data back with extraneous messages going on?
THE PROBLEM - short version:
Connecting both MIDI in and out cables to the audio interface causes a loop where the messages go on forever.
THE PROBLEM - long version:
equipment: MIDI-OX, Focusrite audio interface (AI), Kawai K3m
GOAL: to be able to save and load patches using Sysex.
All MIDI connections are 5-pin cables, no USB (except from AI to PC)
What I have tried so far:
Connecting MIDI out from K3m to MIDI in on AI
Using the procedure in the manual, I can send a single patch from the K3m to MIDI-OX
SUCCESS
Connecting MIDI in to the K3m from MIDI out on the AI
I can play notes using the MIDI-OX keyboard feature
The NOTE ON and NOTE OFF messages display in the Monitor - Output window
SUCCESS
Connecting both MID in and out cables between the AI and the K3m
Note: the K3m manual shows that this should be done.
With this set up, playing a note causes that note to be played on, and then off, continuously
The K3m manual also says that any messages received are passed to the MIDI out port
In light of this entry in the manual, I guess what I am seeing is expected.
So, back to my question (listed above):
How can I send a message like "All Tone Request" (F0400101000100F7)
and have the K3m dump all the tone data (50 tones) with all the other messages happening.
What I have tried for the receive dump message:
Set MIDI in and out devices
Open Sysex Command window and enter hex message
Choose: "Send/Receive Sysex" from Command Window menu
Result: message is sent (displayed in Monitor window), but no data comes back
Channels are set to Channel 1.
I'm not sure what else to try. Any help is appreciated.
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Breath
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Re: feedback loop with both MIDI in and out connec
« Reply #1 on: Oct 18th, 2024, 12:00am » |
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Hi
I'm sure you know , but let's go over a few things
First step for resolving loops... with cables In always goes to Out - Out always goes to In.
In MidiOx's Midi Port Routing (menu View) the column of pix of 5 pin DIN sockets on the left of the window are the Midi In of your Focusrite and any other Midi devices you have selected.
As well there is the special MIDI-OX Event Port which is where MidiOx outputs data - like when you are sending sysex files.
Similarly, the pix on the right are MIDI Out ports.
Make sure there are no connections to start.
Connect ONLY the MIDI-OX Event Port to the Focusrite Out that goes to your synth by dragging the MIDI-OX Event port pic to the pic of the Focusrite out on the right .
If the K3 'echos' Midi on its Midi In back to MidiOx, it is only displayed in the Input Monitor.
To receive a sysex patch open menu View / Sysex
In the new dialog the menu option Sysex Receive Manual dump lets you send the sysex patch by initiating the dump from the synth.
MidiOx is listening to all MIDI input ports so press go on the synth... and when the MidiOx button is done you are finished.
The menu option Command Window / Send/Receive Sysex lets you ask for the sysex.
1) Write the sysex request in the top edit box in the form eg F0 41 35 ..... F7 (my made up sysex)
1a)Test it with the menu option Command Window / Send Sysex . You should see the Sysex coming from the synth in the Input Monitor.
2) Select the menu option Command Window / Send/Receive Sysex
This sends the sysex in the top window out the Midi-Ox Event Port and waits for the data dump.
Midi merging.......... what MidiOx does when confusing Midi data arrives.
Status bytes have values of 128 to 255
The other type of bytes (0 to 127) are data bytes.
Midi rules say that sysex is F0 (start of sysex) + data + F7 (end of sysex)
Your one patch could be made up of many sysex messages (but must be in the form F0 + data + F7) as the manufacturer wants.
F0 and F7 are status bytes.
All the data values between F0 and F7 have to be data bytes (less than 128).
Generally only certain kinds of messages can interrupt the flow of sysex in the middle of the data.
These are time important things like Midi clock messages.
If MidiOx gets a status byte instead of a data byte in the middle of the sysex it would usually not pass it on ( and the 0 or 1 or 2 data bytes that make up the MIDI message) until the end of the sysex (F7) .
eg note on channel 1 is 90 in hex and has two data bytes for example 90 45 67 (90 in hex 144 so bigger than 127 so a Status byte)
MidiOx gets
F7 41 23 45 00 90 45 67 23 46 ......F7
MidiOx assembles the messages and shows
F7 41 23 45 00 23 46 ......F7 90 45 67
The burning question is does the K3 do the same... it should, but ???.
Still problems? See if you can suppress the echo on the K3.
If not then you can filter the loop on MidiOx either globally - Open Options/MIDI Filter...
or creating a Data Map (Options / Data Mapping) and putting the saved map on one of the connections.
It is more likely that you have too many connections in MIDI-OX with the Focusrite Out.
Post again if you are still having trouble.
All the best
Royce
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| « Last Edit: Oct 27th, 2024, 6:07pm by Breath » |
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porkbot
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MIDI-OX Rules!
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Re: feedback loop with both MIDI in and out connec
« Reply #2 on: Oct 27th, 2024, 12:22pm » |
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Thank you so much for taking the time to answer this question.
Yes, the problem was having the input and output port connected in the MIDI Port Routing panel. I saw the routing panel, but didn't understand the significance of what I was seeing. Not sure why you would want to connect the input and output internally.
Another problem was that I was using "01" for channel 1 instead of "00"
So my Sysex command should have been:
F0 - System exclusive
40 - Kawai ID number
00 - Channel number
01 - Function number - All Tone Request
00 - Group Number - Synthesizer Group
01 - Machine ID number - K3m ID number
00 - [0] - 50 internal tones, [1] - 50 cartridge tones
F7 - EOX
But now everything is working seamlessly and I'm looking forward to using MIDI-OX for all things MIDI.
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| « Last Edit: Oct 27th, 2024, 6:07pm by Breath » |
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