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        MIDI-OX >> Mapping Questions >> harpsichord effect
        
(Message started by: pkun on Aug 14^th, 2002, 8:17am)

Title: harpsichord effect
Post by pkun on Aug 14^th, 2002, 8:17am

Hi,

lately I tried to made a „true“ harpsichord tone on my old roland jv-30 synthesizer. I play it with 88 key weighted action keyboard (yamaha kx88 ). (You know, harpsichord make specially noise when a player take up his hand from a keys)

In MIDIOX I tipped a following mapping:

Chan 1 | Message NoteOn | * * | Velocity 24-127 | * || Chan 1 | Message NoteOn | * * | Velocity 90-90 |

it make harpsichord on the constant loudness. (Velocity 90)

On Chanell 2 I choose a “dull noise”, it remind on this harpsichord quality, when it plays with a weak velocity. (The same happend a little later, when you take up your hands from a keys) So I choose 1-23 area for this “dull harpsichord noise”. My keyboards recognizes NoteOn=0 as NoteOff event, (by the way, it’s funny, my yamaha kx88 can’t transmitted velocity between 1-15, but on Implementation Chart you can read - it can! I proof it with MIDIOX ;-))

Chan 1 | Message NoteOn | * * | Velocity 1-23 | * || Chan 2 | Message NoteOn | * * | Velocity 80-80 |

further i mapped NoteOff (by yamaha and roland NoteOn=0) to Chan 2 NoteOn with constant velocity 80. (Now you take up your hands from a keys, I would like to have any keyboard with NoteOff Velocity with 0-127 area in this moment, do you know any model?)

Chan 1 | Message NoteOn | * * | Velocity 0-0 | CLONE || Chan 2 | Message NoteOn | * * | Velocity 80-80 |

I cloned this midi events (NoteOn) 2 time (first time see above) with velocity 0 (NoteOff) for Chan 1 and Chan 2

Chan 1 | Message NoteOn | * * | Velocity 0-0 | CLONE || Chan 1 | Message NoteOn | * * | Velocity 0-0 |
Chan 1 | Message NoteOn | * * | Velocity 0-0 | * || Chan 2 | Message NoteOn | * * | Velocity 0-0

It works very good, when I play... only 1 Note!!!. by more notes this “dull harpsichord noise” is not the same. I suppose it plays not on Chan 2 but Chan 1 (real harpsichord) for very very, very short time. What you think about it? Perhaps it is not possible? I think, perhaps the last NoteOff (NoteOn=0) events comes to quickly? Can I delayed it?
Best, Piotrek
Sorry for my english ;-(

Title: Re: harpsichord effect
Post by Jamie OConnell on Aug 15^th, 2002, 11:55am

If I understand correctly, you are creating a Harpsichord patch by layering a patch on 2 channels, and by mapping NoteOff (NoteOn with 0 velocity) to a NoteOn.

Unfortunately MIDI-OX does not have the ability to enter delays: notes are mapped in the low-level ISR as they are received and resent. On thing you might try is to map the NoteOff (NoteOn with 0 velocity) first to a NoteOn with positive velocity and then clone it to a real NoteOff message. Your synth will respond to a real NoteOff message as well as to a NoteOn with 0 velocity.

Title: Re: harpsichord effect
Post by pkun on Aug 18^th, 2002, 5:27am

I get up with my harpsichord! My problem was GS RESET. Without it I had the same patch on channel 2 as channel 1 and this “dull harpsichord noise” was to loud. (GM don’t use NRPN). But I have new problem. When I send GS RESET with *.oxm file, my computer “go dead” with blue screen and I have to press the reset button on my CPU to restart. Only manually it’s possible to send it - “Actions - Send - Gs On”. Why?
I’m using a PD440FX board running with a Pentium II MMX-266, Midi Express XT Console by Unicorn, WinMe (MIDI-Ox ver. 6.4.9.333) DirectX 8.0.
Thanks for any help! (my english is not better, but I hope you understand me, sorry!)
------
I start my mapping with:
* Ctrl 67 67 * * x | * SYSEX F0 41 10 42 12 40 00 7F 00
* Ctrl 67 67 * * x | 1 ProgChg 6 6 * *
* Ctrl 67 67 * * | 2 ProgChg 6 6 * *
...
------
PS. If anybody have interest an my GS-harpsichord, so I can send *.oxm file with e-mail.
Piotrek

Title: Re: harpsichord effect
Post by Jamie OConnell on Aug 18^th, 2002, 1:21pm

I hope the first line in your map is not the full SysEx mssage, because it is missing the end. The complete GS Reset is:
F0 41 10 42 12 40 00 7F 00 41 F7

Beyond that, I would not recommend mapping a GS-Reset SysEx message to a controller. GS-Reset is a very disruptive message on many Synthesizers: my Yamaha MU-100R takes a second or more to recover from this message and re-initialize the mode. In fact, on my synth the Harpsichord program change on 1 and 2 never takes effect because it is sent while the MU100 is recovering from GS-Reset. You have it mapped so that any message sent on CC:67 triggers another SysEx. It would be OK if CC:67 is sent very infrequently, but I have no way of knowing if that's the case. To be safe maybe you could map it to only one value of CC:67 (64 is mid range):

* Ctrl 67 67 64 64 x | * SYSEX F0 41 10 42 12 40 00 7F 00 41 F7
* Ctrl 67 67 64 64 x | 1 ProgChg 6 6 * *
* Ctrl 67 67 64 64 | 2 ProgChg 6 6 * *

I don't fully understand why you want to issue the GS-Reset? Can you instead set volume, program change, and other controller values?

Title: Re: harpsichord effect
Post by pkun on Aug 19^th, 2002, 7:51am

Title: Re: harpsichord effect
Post by Jamie OConnell on Aug 19^th, 2002, 5:16pm

Quote:

Beyond that, if I send only sysex message alone (without mapping) I got blue screen too...

What info does the blue screen give (if any)? Try running Dr. Watson, to see if you can trap the error. If you do, send me the Dr. Watson Log.

I don't have any trouble sending the message here, but I'm using a different interface (Yamaha UX256) and different OS (Win XP Pro).

Title: Re: harpsichord effect
Post by pkun on Aug 20^th, 2002, 2:52am

blue screen mesagge:
Fehler (Error): 0D : 2F17 : 00000A12

Dr. Watson:

MIDI-OX 16Bit thunked MIDI library verwendete eine nicht initialisierte Variable, versuchte auf den Speicher oder eine freigegebene DLL zuzugreifen oder fand einen nicht angegebenen Fehler.

Modul: MMCBK16.DLL
Beschreibung: MIDI-OX 16Bit thunked MIDI library
Version: 6.4.9.333
Produkt: MIDI-OX
Hersteller: MIDI-OX Computing

I use german Windows ME
Piotrek

Title: Re: harpsichord effect
Post by MightyD on Sep 12^th, 2002, 5:22am

Just found this message in passing and I wanted to explain why GS reset is sometimes necessary on the Roland VSC.

If you don't like the vibrato speed, sending a GS reset then an NRPN message is the only way to fix it. Why they did this I don't know, don't ask.

BTW, please add another voice for an in-place checksum calculator. ;)

Title: Re: harpsichord effect
Post by elya on Apr 11^th, 2003, 8:07am

yes, there is a release velocity controller and it's the Alesis QS8.2. (http://www.Alesis.com; mailto:support@alesis.com)

I'm sure it'll help you customize your harpsichord for released hammer noise (as well as forte pianos :-)

If you need a real 88 piano master keyboard you may check the Fatar's SL880 serie. (though, it miss a POLY pressure {it has only chanell aftertouch} and doesn't have release velocity) (http://studiologic.net/fatar-menu.htm ; mailto:fatar@musicindustries.com)

with the best wishes

Elya

PS: Fatar now introduced their new line of SL880&990, so maybe the new line of the 1100&2001 will include poly aftertouch and release velocity ...