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        MIDI-OX >> Mapping Questions >> building a midi controller - help
        
(Message started by: nuperspective on Dec 18^th, 2006, 6:28am)

Title: building a midi controller - help
Post by nuperspective on Dec 18^th, 2006, 6:28am

im building a midi controller for use with ableton live. i got the kit, its built, it sends fader and rotary CC's. however, the push buttons are sending pitchbend messages [or that what live is telling me] and i cant activate a scene launch or a channel mute.

so ive gone and downloaded midiox. how do i transform the pitchbend messages into note on / off messages [i presume that this is what i need to do]

BTW midiox is calling out the incoming midi messages from the board as program change messages.

please keep in mind i know next to nothing so any help would be great.

Title: Re: building a midi controller - help
Post by Peter L Jones on Dec 18^th, 2006, 9:21am

First, I'd get your hardware wiring up corrected..! Buttons sending pitchbend probably isn't that helpful...

Do the buttons send on the same channel or different channels?

Do the buttons send a fixed or variable bend value?

Do the buttons all send the same bend value?

Title: Re: building a midi controller - help
Post by nuperspective on Dec 19^th, 2006, 1:52am

when i connect to midiox it looks like program change messages not pitchbend.

here are the lines of code for the first three buttons.

0000164D C0 00 -- 1 --- PC ACC GRAND PIANO
0000E6B4 C0 01 -- 1 --- PC BRITE ACC PIANO
0001C8C9 C0 02 -- 1 --- PC ELECTRIC GRAND

all the other buttons are putting out similar PC messages. these button messages are hardwired and cannot be changed.

how do i change them to note on or off messages in midiox? i can see what i might need to do. i have set the input to program change and the output to note on. but what should i put in the min / max boxes to allow midiox to recognise the different program change messages?

Title: Re: building a midi controller - help
Post by nuperspective on Dec 19^th, 2006, 5:01am

right.

got the program change messages to change to note on messages. i have a value of 127 set. all the note on messages from the push buttons send a different note number. but.... ableton doesnt seem to recognise the note on [its still the same midi message as before]. i have midiyoke installed, it shows up in the midi prefs window, but i dont know what to do from here.

any advice

Title: Re: building a midi controller - help
Post by Peter L Jones on Dec 19^th, 2006, 2:44pm

You need to have Live read the messages that MIDI OX is writing, not the messages from your controller.

First, make sure Live does NOT have the external MIDI In open/assigned. It's not going to be using it.

Second, in MIDI OX, set up a port mapping from the external MIDI In to a MIDI Yoke Junction (say #1).

Next, back in Live, open the MIDI Yoke Junction you patched in MIDI OX (e.g. #1) as the input.

You should then get the MIDI OX output (i.e. data mapped messages) arriving in Live.

Title: Re: building a midi controller - help
Post by nuperspective on Dec 20^th, 2006, 3:28am

ok that seems to be working.

but.

theres something not quite right when using note on messages so ive changed them to be control change messages. they map okay in live and i can map them to a channel mute button. the message is sent the mute button goes out. but a second press doesnt trigger the mute back on.

what do i need to do from here?

Title: Re: building a midi controller - help
Post by nuperspective on Dec 20^th, 2006, 6:02am

unfortunately, ive been playing around but i cant get the buttons to turn off now.

so state of play.

midiyoke is working i can map midi control values.

but

nothing from the buttons seems to be triggering within live. the sliders and rotaries are all fine and working. it must be something with the mapping of the program change to control change mapping.

the reason i have gone with the control change messages as the sliders and rotaries are sending these out and they are working well.

im just not sure what to do from here.

any advice.

Title: Re: building a midi controller - help
Post by Peter L Jones on Dec 20^th, 2006, 2:35pm

MIDI OX can't do toggling - that requires it to have a memory and it doesn't have one.

You'll need to assign two buttons, one for "on" and one for "off".

Alternatively, you could learn how to write VBScript and use the scripting interface to implement what you need (but post over in the scripting section ;)).

Title: Re: building a midi controller - help
Post by nuperspective on Dec 20^th, 2006, 2:48pm

ok so toggling is out for now. scripting is that going to be hard?

but

even how things are set now i cannot get a one shot functions such as scene or clip launch to work. there are five buttons assigned to launch buttons. these should work with a single press of the button, but im not getting anything. they are mapped in live. the midi in signal is working but they dont fire.

any ideas.

Title: Re: building a midi controller - help
Post by Peter L Jones on Dec 20^th, 2006, 6:15pm

I'm not really clear on what you're saying is happening. Can you record the MIDI events to a clip in Live but just not use them to trigger functions? That's not something I could help with (I've only ever demoed Live long enough to know it's not the host for me).

If you're not even seeing the events arrive at Live but you can see them being created in MIDI OX, then check that you have the MIDI OX event port patched to the MIDI Yoke junction you're writing stuff to. (It should be there by default.)

Title: Re: building a midi controller - help
Post by nuperspective on Dec 21^st, 2006, 3:43am

ill try explain a little better with some pics.

heres a screen shot of ableton with the midi learn on. you can see the controller messages ive mapped using midiox. when the midi learn is on ableton revels the channel launch buttons so you can map a controller button to launch each channel, they are the dark blue arrow heads above the faders [this was a button on my uc33]. you can see from the screen shot these are mapped as 1/0, 1/1, 1/2 and 1/3. even though they are mapped they still dont trigger. so ableton has picked up the incoming message, mapped it but ableton will not launch the channel. so im stuck. control change messages should be fine as the slider and rotaries work a treat. you can see these mapped as 2/13, 2/12, 2/7 etc.

http://www.scien-audio.com/ss1.jpg

the rest of the screen shots show the various pages from both ableton and midiox - maybe you can see something obvious.

http://www.scien-audio.com/mm1.jpg

http://www.scien-audio.com/my1.jpg

http://www.scien-audio.com/pm1.jpg

this last one shows the control change messages im using in midiox.

http://www.scien-audio.com/bb1.jpg

many thanks

Title: Re: building a midi controller - help
Post by Peter L Jones on Dec 21^st, 2006, 5:31pm

Like I said, can't help on the Live front.

The only thing that strikes me on the MIDI OX side is the output part of the mapping.

You need to have two lots of buttons, like I said - one for "on", one for "off". Currently, all your buttons are sending off - the output "Amount" is always zero. I suspect that's why Live isn't responding - actually it is, but you're not changing anything, so nothing changes!

There's really no point having the min and max different for Amount when your buttons aren't sending two values. So, for the "off" buttons, set both to zero. For the "on" buttons", set both to 127.

(I'd also be inclined to set the "Ctrl #" min and max to "-1" to reflect the fact it's the Program Change number from the input message that's being passed on unchanged in that field.)

Title: Re: building a midi controller - help
Post by nuperspective on Dec 22^nd, 2006, 4:16am

dont worry about it man. ive got the launch buttons working now ive changed the values of the controls like you said. just need to do the mutes and everythings sorted.

Title: Re: building a midi controller - help
Post by nuperspective on Dec 22^nd, 2006, 9:16pm

ive cracked it and got it to work using only midiox. ive mapped the push buttons for mutes as note on and differnet key numbers. works a treat i just had to change the incoming messages around. on and off on a single button.