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        MIDI-OX >> Mapping Questions >> How to map this to a controller
        
(Message started by: DrumsBob on Aug 18^th, 2016, 8:39pm)

Title: How to map this to a controller
Post by DrumsBob on Aug 18^th, 2016, 8:39pm

Hello,
I have a Behringer BCF2000 that I want to sell but it has one function that I can't figure out how to program into any of my other controllers-Novation Nocturn and Impulse 25, Steinberg QC and a Behringer BCR2000.

The function allows me to scroll through all the inserts in Cubase.

I only see a place to enter the MIDI channel and the address in my controller setups. And max value too.

Here's the MIDIox the function generates:

IN PORT STATUS DATA1 DATA2 CHAN NOTE EVENT

2 2 B0 12 02 1 ---- Control Change

Thanks in advance :_)

Title: Re: How to map this to a controller
Post by Breath on Aug 19^th, 2016, 12:07am

Hi

Because you can see letters as well as numbers and that the numbers are always 2 characters means you are in hexadecimal mode.
You can change to decimal by right clicking on the monitor window and selecting Decimal

B0 12 02 is...
B = Continuous controller (CC)
0 = Channel -1 so this channel 1
B0 means CC on channel 1 (B4 means CC on channel 5)
12 is the CC type (hex 12 is really 16+2 = 18 in decimal)
02 is the value

So B0 12 02 means "set CC 18 to the value 2"

As an example, let's set this function to Encoder 1 (top left knob) on the BCR or BCF
To go into programming mode press and hold EDIT and turn Encoder 1 (Enc1) - don't push it or you will select the switch instead.
Now you are in Edit mode Enc1 has the function of selecting the Message type - we want CC.
Enc2 selects the channel - we want 1
Enc3 selects the type - we want 18 (it is decimal - not hex 12)
Enc4 Minimum value
Enc5 Max value
Enc6 mode - ABSOLUTE
Enc7 LED mode - 1d = 1 LED which is OK
Enc8 Display the value ? On / Off

Press Exit and then save the preset -
Press STORE (the LED will flash) and you can use the < > buttons to move to the preset number you want to save to - then press STORE again.

I hope this helps.

All the best
Royce

Title: Re: How to map this to a controller
Post by DrumsBob on Aug 19^th, 2016, 3:02am

Wow thanks Royce! I was able to get the BCR2000 encoder to look like the BCF values in MIDIox using your instructions. Different ports but I believe that's just how MIDIox knows which device you're using (I hope it is).

Now I faced with the same issue I've had with both the BCF and BCR. I haven't had them long and use them with Cubase. I got Generic Remote and Mackie Control setup for both devices. The BCF is in Cubase mode so nothing can be changed on it (as fas as I know). The BCR is in the Generic Remote. Any of the functions that I can assign in the Generic Remote work fine on the BCR.

I have yet to figure out how to send what I put in the BCR/BCF like what you suggested, and have Cubase see the MIDI data.

I've been doing research and I'm missing one key thing, I will find it!

Just upgraded to Cubase 8.5 Pro, extremely impressed!

Once I figure out the missing link I'll know how to interpret the MIDIox code now which will be VERY useful, Thanks again for that great explanation!

Ciao,
Bob

Title: Re: How to map this to a controller
Post by Breath on Aug 20^th, 2016, 1:00am

Hi Bob,

on 08/19/16 at 03:02:40, DrumsBob wrote:

True - these modes are easy to operate, but at the expense of not being able to program anything.
You can start in the normal mode (I assume that is what you mean with ' Generic Remote') and program a 'Mackie mode' just for some controls and then you are free to use the others how you wish. It's a bit more to learn, but I think it is worth it.

Quote:

The BCR is in the Generic Remote. Any of the functions that I can assign in the Generic Remote work fine on the BCR.
I have yet to figure out how to send what I put in the BCR/BCF like what you suggested, and have Cubase see the MIDI data.

There is a lot of stuff that Behringer hid from most people.
It has all been uncovered and although you can't program these features from the the front panel, there computer editors available.

You might like to visit Mark' s web site http://mountainutilities.eu/forum
He has developed a very detailed (although daunting on the first read) manual and great editor. All free - donation ware really

You might like to have a look at the stuff on my web site particularly the SecretBC.pdf
http://www.bwalk.com.au/BC2k/BC2k.html

All the best
Royce

Title: Re: How to map this to a controller
Post by DrumsBob on Aug 20^th, 2016, 3:13am

Hi Royce,
You're right about Behringer-it took a while to figure out how to set their controllers up. Their BCedit crashed on me all the time and I couldn't find documentation on it that made any sense.

I've been recording MIDI drums and using Superior Drummer for quite a while, never had to get into MIDI like I do now to get the controllers working.

A quick glance at your links shows a lot of documentation, I have my homework cut out for me. I like a challenge, I got a good one here :)

You sure know your stuff, thanks for sharing it!

Thanks again, really appreciate your feedback!

Ciao,
Bob

Title: Re: How to map this to a controller
Post by DrumsBob on Aug 20^th, 2016, 8:38pm

Hey Royce,
I discovered that the BCF is sending not only:
B0 12 02, the 02 changes depending which way you turn it. clockwise goes from 1 to 4, counterclockwise goes from 43 to 47 or so.

The mountain utilities is quite comprehensive. I can see the BCF encoder in the MIDI Controllers window. It stays on the bottom and doesn't move when I turn it clockwise, it stays on the top and says 65 when I turn it counterclockwise.

Your SecretBC.PDF is fascinating. I have one question on that: you say use any PC editor. How do you get the BCR to see the file you create?

Okay, using your instructions from earlier I was able to program the BCR, now I need to figure out how to get Cubase to see it. So close!

I just noticed both BC's have MIDI outputs. Should I be using one of them instead of the USB?

Thanks,
Bob

Thanks again,
Bob

Title: Re: How to map this to a controller
Post by Breath on Aug 21^st, 2016, 9:38pm

Hi Bob,
I see you popped over to Mark's forum as well.
He has a wealth of knowledge on the BC2000's
He coined the phrase "Behringer Control Language" (BCL) that the BC's 'speak'.

There is a command in BCL that can be used to give a different value depending what direction you turn.
'ifp' - if positive or, if min is less than max then, clockwise (you can have max less than min to reverse the direction of the control)
'ifn' - if positive or similarly anticlockwise
and is placed in the .tx line

eg
.tx ifp $B0 12 20 ifn $B0 12 40
'val' is the word for the 7 bit value of the encoder position, but there are similar words for just a couple of bits of this value.
val0.3 just uses bit 0, bit 1, bit 2 and bit 3. That is a value 0 to 7
So if the value was 26 = (hex) $1A = (7bit binary) 001 1010 you can see that the val0.3 = 1010 (bit 0 is far right)
So here we are chopping off the 1 in bit 5.
This can be useful in all sorts of ways.

An example of BCL for encoder 1 could look like
$encoder 1
.showvalue on
.mode 1dot
.minmax 0 3000 ; min is less than max
.default 0
.tx ifp $B0 12 val0.3 ifn $B0 12 0

So turning it clockwise it goes from 0 to 7 over and over again.
Turning anticlockwise resets it to 0.

As you can see BCL is just text so any text editor will do.
I save it as "Filename.bc2" so I know it is a BCL file.

My editor or Mark's editor will accept theses files and wrap them in the correct sysex so you can send it to the BC2000.

As far as the Midi ins and outputs are concerned, they are great as they will merge incoming Midi data with the BC's control change.
They can be used with the USB or not or as stand alone controller without a computer.

As you are talking about controlling Cubase then you either need to use one of the USB modes (see Behringer's manual) or use a Midi cable to the Impulse and the USB from the Impulse (I don't have a Nocturn or Impulse but I assume they have Midi interface and USB)

All the best
Royce