MIDI-OX User Forum - Print Page


    
      
        MIDI-OX User Forum
        (http://www.midiox.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl)
      

        MIDI-OX >> Questions and Discussion >> Using Midi-Ox with Roland GI-20
        
(Message started by: terrigal on Apr 21^st, 2006, 8:18am)

Title: Using Midi-Ox with Roland GI-20
Post by terrigal on Apr 21^st, 2006, 8:18am

I want to use a Roland GK-3 Pickup connected to a Roland GI-20 connected to my Pc to log someone playing the guitar. My ultimate aim is to be able to Tab what the guy is playing on the guitar.
I imagine I first need to log the data stream from the GI-20, perhaps save it as a file and then (open the saved file and) analyse it channel (string) by channel (string) to get a 'road-map' of midi events on the six channels (strings) which I will then spread out on my dining room table to construct a Tab of the music.
Has anyone done this? I am new to Midi and imagine that Midi-Ox could be used for this task ?

Title: Re: Using Midi-Ox with Roland GI-20
Post by Jamie OConnell on Apr 21^st, 2006, 1:22pm

This would probably be much more easily accomplished with a MIDI sequencer, which can record MIDI and save it as a standard MIDI file.

Title: Re: Using Midi-Ox with Roland GI-20
Post by terrigal on Apr 22^nd, 2006, 7:07am

I'll head out on the Web to find a "Midi sequencer" - unless you might suggest one .... but I imagine that Midi-Ox will log a Midi input stream and offer the ability to save it ??

Title: Re: Using Midi-Ox with Roland GI-20
Post by Jamie OConnell on Apr 22^nd, 2006, 1:10pm

Yes, MIDI-OX can log the data stream.

Cakewalk Music Creator 3 is MIDI sequencer/Audio Recorder that will perform the MIDI Channel to Tablature conversion you describe for a $29 download:

http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/MusicCreator/default.asp

[disclosure: I work for Cakewalk]

Title: Re: Using Midi-Ox with Roland GI-20
Post by terrigal on Apr 24^th, 2006, 2:31am

Thanks for the idea of using Cakewalk's Music Creator 3. I'll visit its website and check it out. The price seems very reasonable.
I'm glad the Forum exists to give me some clue on how to move forward with my "GI-20" project. Midi has been around for a while and most people know the 'midi-ese' - which I am just learning!

Title: Re: Using Midi-Ox with Roland GI-20
Post by terrigal on May 1^st, 2006, 3:59am

I have used the Log command in Midi-Ox to record (and later save) the Midi IN from the Roland GI-20 (connected to my guitar which has the GK3 pickup). On the computer screen I see Note on Note off etc, channel, note, and Timestamp. The Timestamp is in Hex code. Can the Log command be configured so that the Timestamp is in decimal ?? This would be a great help as I could set up a horizontal graph and mark the notes on a horizontal time scale. When I use the GI-20 in Mono mode, each string has its own Midi channel and so I could mark each Note on with its note on the correct Tab/String. So - does timestamp come in decimal??

Title: Re: Using Midi-Ox with Roland GI-20
Post by Jamie OConnell on May 1^st, 2006, 11:39am

You can specify that everything be in decimal by placing your monitor display in decimal. You can create a MIDI file from the log if you choose MIDI to Text.

Title: Re: Using Midi-Ox with Roland GI-20
Post by terrigal on May 2^nd, 2006, 7:58am

I appreciate your patience with my fumblings. I can now get a decimal timestamp in Midi Input and Midi Output displays. I can also filter the Midi Output to only display Note Ons - this is a great start. What I would like to be able to do is zero the timestamp so it starts from zero. Also - what are the units in the timestamp?

Title: Re: Using Midi-Ox with Roland GI-20
Post by Jamie OConnell on May 4^th, 2006, 5:49pm

The units are Milliseconds. You can reset timestamp numbers by A) Closing and reopening the driver or B) Subtract the first timestamp from all of the other timestamps.

Title: Re: Using Midi-Ox with Roland GI-20
Post by terrigal on May 7^th, 2006, 9:04am

I'll give your suggestions a go - thanks for the response

Title: Re: Using Midi-Ox with Roland GI-20
Post by terrigal on May 18^th, 2006, 7:53am

Yesterday (17 May), I logged my busker friend Ted playing his version of "a popular song" on my Takamine EN10NW fitted with Extra Light Martin phosphor-bronze strings fitted with a Roland GK3 pickup blue-tacked into position connected to the Roland GI-20 connected to my PC via USB and running Midi-Ox to log the Midi In stream. I used Mono mode on the GI-20 to separate the string events to six channels. I had also previously adjusted the sensitivity of individual strings on the GI-20. In Midi-Ox, I filtered out all Note Offs and used Excel to massage the resultant logged text file to substitute fret numbers for Notes and do some calculations on the sequence of Timestamps to indicate time advances for each new Note On. In this song, Ted's quavers were about .17 seconds and crotchets .35 seconds, as you'd expect. His hammer-ons were about .10 seconds. His pinches (mostly thumb-middle but occasionally thumb-index) are about .003 seconds apart, sometimes the upper string before the lower. His version used a drop-D tuning and is a finger-picking arrangement with thumb, and index and middle fingers only. It is less busier than thumb, index, middle and ring and gives more emphasis to individual notes, important in a street situation. I've begun to construct the Tab on strips of graph paper. It's fairly slow, but I could probably use some Excel chart to construct a Tab, once fret numbers have been subsituted for Notes. Ted varies the arrangement as he plays, and he has agreed to play only one version throughout next time. This allows the graph paper strips to be more easily overlaid where each verse/chorus is played, though there is usually only one bridge. I think I'll have a cassette recorder going simultaneously next time to have as an audio reference in case the Tab gets a little "vague" here and there. There is a PC program Pocket Recorder by JetAudio which allows you to slow down the replay (at lowered pitch though) of a wave file and this can help enormously in clarifying some areas.
The more challenging task will be to record Ted playing flatpick as he does for quite a few of his 'covers'.
I use TablEdit to put the Tab into my PC for a very nice printout and tempo/pitch adjustment. I don't think Music Creator 3 has Tab.

Title: Re: Using Midi-Ox with Roland GI-20
Post by Jamie OConnell on May 18^th, 2006, 11:36am

Quote:

I don't think Music Creator 3 has Tab.

I can assure you it does. I am the programmer that created it.

Title: Re: Using Midi-Ox with Roland GI-20
Post by terrigal on May 19^th, 2006, 3:18am

I'll have another look in MC 3 for Tab. It is probably there under options or setup or somesuch. This is really about Ted. About 3 years ago, when I was 64, I (with a guitar in the cupboard that I took out every three months or so and strummed wistfully for about 10 minutes till my fingers packed up) heard Ted playing and singing "Tears in Heaven" about 12 noon in the main shopping area of my town. I was mesmerised. I thought I'll try to learn that even if it kills me. I found TablEdit on the Web, found an arrangement of Tears by Daishi Harada somewhere or other and, three months later, with sore fingers and lots of frustration, I could play the first few bars. I realised that my classical - an old Model 113 Levin I bought back in 1962 - was really too wide across the neck for my fingers. I lashed out in 2004 and bought a Takamine EN10NW acoustic. It was on special and sounded (and still sounds) great. Not quite the same sound as Ted's old parlour-sized Martin, but pretty good. I can now rattle off Tears quite easily (since it is my personal encore just about every night). And I've learnt "Vincent" and "You Can Close Your Eyes" and a few others by dint of nightly and sometimes daily practise (being now a retired person). But my goal has been to play Ted's arrangements. Not an easy task because Ted doesn't write ANYTHING down, and WON'T more's the point. It makes him nervous and want to remove himself elsewhere so it is counter-productive to even mention it. I do have 2 CDs of 23 of Ted's songs which he did in one take at his home (as he said, he was a little hoarse the next day). And I tried Transcribe! and got nowhere. So... what to do? A little google searching around came up with "midi guitar" - hexaphonic ... wow!!! A bit costly for this, and so, on eBay, I found a Roland GI-20 & GK3 pickup for sale (I already had a pack of bluetack sitting on my shelf for years) and found Midi-Ox too, for which I am very grateful. ... Isn't the Web great! When I was 22, there was absolutely no such thing, not even Tandy TRS80 !