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        MIDI-OX >> Questions and Discussion >> Midi note is played when key is released
        
(Message started by: DaveS on Mar 21^st, 2013, 5:09pm)

Title: Midi note is played when key is released
Post by DaveS on Mar 21^st, 2013, 5:09pm

Hello,
I am using a Roland JX-1 connected with a HosaTech USM-422 midi->USB cable to a PC running Windows 7 Pro (x64). When I play one note at a time "Note On" and "Note Off" is sent correctly. If I press two notes simultaneously "Note On" is sent correctly for both notes. But when I release the keys simultaneously "Note Off" is sent for one of the notes and "Note On" is sent for the other (see Input Monitor image below).

http://www.davenotes.com/sites/default/files/images/MidiOx_Screen.jpg

I am grateful for any suggestions on how to resolve this problem because I am clueless ???

Title: Re: Midi note is played when key is released
Post by 4x4uk on Mar 21^st, 2013, 6:53pm

one possible solution use data mapping clone the note off and map it for any other note that could potentially be on at the same time

Title: Re: Midi note is played when key is released
Post by DaveS on Mar 21^st, 2013, 8:04pm

Thanks for the prompt reply 4x4UK,

I guess that you mean with midi-ox data mapper like in the following picture.

http://davenotes.com/sites/default/files/images/MidiOx_map.jpg

I don't understand this very well. Can you help me to understand what settings I should use?

Title: Re: Midi note is played when key is released
Post by 4x4uk on Mar 22^nd, 2013, 12:20pm

yes but i wasnt thinking straght last nite must have been tired, the quickest and easiest way is to map to all note off message
http://www.bossgtcentral.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=447&d=1363969201

Title: Re: Midi note is played when key is released
Post by DaveS on Mar 22^nd, 2013, 2:25pm

Hi 4x4uk,

Thanks again for your help. The midi-map did not change the behavior for me.

You can see the behavior in the midiox input monitor screen capture below.

First, I press a single note 'C' on the keyboard. A 'Note On' event is triggered. Next, I release the key and the 'Note Off event is triggered.
Next, I press two keys simultaneously 'C' and 'E'. The pair of 'Note On' events are triggered.
Finally, I release both keys. A 'Note Off' event is triggered for the note 'C'. But, instead of 'Note Off', a second 'Note On' is triggered for 'E'. The note continues to sound until I strike the 'E' key again in order to trigger a 'Note On' and 'Note Off' for that note.

http://www.davenotes.com/sites/default/files/images/MidiOx_Input.jpg

Going completely off topic, I am guessing that your handle is due to a vehicle that you own. What kind of 4x4 are you driving there. I have had Jeeps in my garage since 1985. They have been very reliable vehicles for where I live in Michigan.

Title: Re: Midi note is played when key is released
Post by 4x4uk on Mar 22^nd, 2013, 2:44pm

yes it is Day to day transport is a 3.6l TDv8 rangerover vogue

but my pride and joy is the defender 90 I built from scratch with 300tdi engine full roll cage and modified extreme suspension

with regards to the mapping you have to make sure its enabled.

What I posted above should send cc123 which is all onotes off when any note off message is received.

Ah the us manufacture plant for the company I work for is in pleasant prairie

Title: Re: Midi note is played when key is released
Post by DaveS on Mar 22^nd, 2013, 4:41pm

Hi 4x4uk,

I made sure that the map was enabled. Still no effect.

I inserted a second line into the translation map. The map now looks like the picture below.

http://www.davenotes.com/sites/default/files/images/MidiOx_map2.jpg

The result is shown in the picture below. Notice that there are 3 'Note Off' recorded in the output monitor which correspond to the 3 'Note On' events in the input monitor. The 3rd 'Note On' shown in the input monitor should really be a 'Note Off' because that is when I released the key :(

http://www.davenotes.com/sites/default/files/images/MidiOx_IO.jpg

Title: Re: Midi note is played when key is released
Post by 4x4uk on Mar 22^nd, 2013, 4:55pm

weird try setting the min and max values for the cc 123 message both to zero rather than -1

Title: Re: Midi note is played when key is released
Post by DaveS on Mar 22^nd, 2013, 5:38pm

Changing the Min & Max Amounts from -1 to 0 had no effect.

Title: Re: Midi note is played when key is released
Post by 4x4uk on Mar 22^nd, 2013, 5:52pm

in the first data map click the passon clone for the not off
then create another map that maps note off the cc123

Been doing a bit of looking around and a lot of it seems to be a windows software issue some people seemed to fix their problems by sending all notes off message twice

also if you dont need it try turning off active sensing

Title: Re: Midi note is played when key is released
Post by DaveS on Mar 22^nd, 2013, 7:41pm

I am not sure what you wanted me to do. I am not very fluent in midi-ox yet. But I am learning :)

Did you mean like this:

http://www.davenotes.com/sites/default/files/images/MidiOx_map3.jpg

or

http://www.davenotes.com/sites/default/files/images/MidiOx_map4.jpg

or did I get it completely wrong?

Both of these still had no effect.

Title: Re: Midi note is played when key is released
Post by Breath on Mar 22^nd, 2013, 8:21pm

As the JX-1 into the USM-422 is producing this error as seen in the input monitor there is a bug either on your JX-1 or the USM driver or the cables.

Check your Midi cables first. Although unlikely, I have had some weird problems with damaged Midi cables before.
Disconnect all Midi cables. Try one cable from the JX-1 out to the USM In. If there is an error in MidiOx, try the other one in the same connection.

If the bug is in both cables try connecting the JX-1 Midi In to the JX-1 Midi Out. This will cause 2 sounds to be played and sound like a slight chorus effect.
If a note 'hangs' when you do your two note test then the keyboard is the problem. Do a factory reset to see if that fixes it.

If its not the JX-1 it could be the USM. Try uninstalling the driver and reinstalling it. Are you using a Win7 x64 driver?

All the best
Royce

Title: Re: Midi note is played when key is released
Post by DaveS on Mar 22^nd, 2013, 9:19pm

Thanks Breath,

That sounds like a good debug procedure.

The USM-422 is a MIDI to USB cable made by HosaTech called a TrackLink. The cable comes with very little documentation but the manufacturer says that it needs no driver. Older models of the cable did require a driver.

I have used the JX-1 synthesizer successfully on an older PC with WinXP operating system without problems. I installed Soundblaster Audigy on that PC. The card came with a panel which allowed me to connect midi to midi cable directly to the sound card.

I am now trying to connect the Roland JX-1 synthesizer to a new PC. Unfortunately, technology has changed and the Soundblaster Audigy will not work on the new PC - drivers fail.

Bottom line is that I suspect either the USM-422 cable or the newer Win7 Pro operating system. But I will not point fingers until I have some proof.

It is getting late now in this part of the world and I will try your suggestions in the morning and post my findings then.

Best Wishes,
DaveS

Title: Re: Midi note is played when key is released
Post by DaveS on Mar 23^rd, 2013, 7:44am

Hi Breath,

I found that the USM cable which is labeled 'in' must be plugged into the JX-1 synthesizer out. That is the minimum connection required to produce sound. I don't know how to test anything else beyond that.

One thing that has seems odd to me is the led indicators on the USM-422 cable. There are 3 led's:

On the left is one labeled 'midi' which flashes blue
In center is one that is not labeled and does not light up
On the right is one labeled 'usb' which lights up red.

I have sent an email to Hosa Tech support asking if the led's are indicating normal operation. I don't expect to hear back from them for a few days. I will let you know their response.

Title: Re: Midi note is played when key is released
Post by 4x4uk on Mar 23^rd, 2013, 12:35pm

check with hosa I think there is a driver required for vista win 7

http://www.turtlebeach.com/support/entry/582220337/

Title: Re: Midi note is played when key is released
Post by DaveS on Mar 23^rd, 2013, 1:47pm

Hi 4x4uk,

Thanks for researching that. It is kind of you to spend so much time to help.

That driver is for an older model of the USM-422 and would not work on my machine because it does not support 64bit. From the HosaTech site:
Quote:

NOTE: The earlier version of the USM-422 (pre 2009, light blue color) requires drivers for installation. Please visits our Downloads section http://www.hosatech.com/media/document/USM422_OldVersion_Vista_Install.pdf to obtain driver update and installation instructions.

Please see http://www.midiox.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=query;action=post;num=1363900164;title=Post+reply;start= for additional information.

They probably should have come up with a different model number for the new one :)

I have sent an email to HosaTech support to ask them to clarify which LED's should be illuminated when the device is working properly. I hope to hear back from them in about 4-5 days. I will post their response.

Title: Re: Midi note is played when key is released
Post by 4x4uk on Mar 24^th, 2013, 7:16am

no problem your welcome, i know how frustrsating it can be when you get some wierd error in you set upi that is hard to sort out.

Title: Re: Midi note is played when key is released
Post by DaveS on Mar 26^th, 2013, 6:34pm

I exchanged the midi to usb cable for a new one. Hoping that there was some problem with the original cable. This did not solve the problem and I am reasonably certain that the cable is functioning correctly.

I am ready to throw in the towel.

Fortunately, the JX-1 synthesizer has a pretty good set of sounds on its own. My workaround will be to use the JX-1 audio out. And, I will only use midi with soft synths for single notes.

:-/

Title: Re: Midi note is played when key is released
Post by Breath on Mar 28^th, 2013, 2:24am

So it looks like it is your JX-1.
Save your internal sounds etc before you do a reset to the factory settings.

ROLAND JX-1 HOLD WRITE AND FLUTE THEN POWER ON.
This is from http://www.dlse.nl/synthrepair/reset.html
I think this should read WHILE HOLDING WRITE AND FLUTE TURN THE POWER ON.

Test the JX-1 again.

If it is still a problem, borrow a Midi cable. Not a Midi interface, but a cable with a Midi plug at both ends and connect the Midi In to the Midi Out on the JX1.

If some notes fail to turn off then you have a faulty JX1 and need to take it to a tech to fix.

Royce

Title: Re: Midi note is played when key is released
Post by DaveS on Mar 28^th, 2013, 7:32am

Hi Royce (Breath),

Thanks for your help. I performed the factory reset. The reset procedure you described is correct. I confirmed it in the JX-1 manual.

Also, I tried the midi-in to midi-out test. Everything works correctly.

I guess that makes Windows 7 Pro (64bit) the most likely suspect. I have no idea what to do with that.

I sent an email Roland support yesterday. I described the problem and provided a link to this forum so that they would have all information that I have tried to resolve the problem. The US support replied that they had not heard of the problem and they do not have a JX-1 to test. They forwarded my email to Japan to see if they have any information.

Sometimes I wish that God had not made me so stubborn. I said earlier that I was ready to throw in the towel. But I can not seem to get it off my mind :)

Title: Re: Midi note is played when key is released
Post by Breath on Mar 28^th, 2013, 9:18pm

That is truly weird.
If there are no hanging notes, then I would say that the Midi interface (both, as I assume that you got the same model when you replaced it) and Win7 X64 are not compatible.

I can only suggest, as the keyboard is fairly portable, that you take it to a friend's or a music shop with a PC and MidiOx perhaps with XP (I am still only running 32bit XP3) and test it there.

If it is OK, and I think is should be, I think you need to see if you can return the interface and get a different interface.
Roland, M-Audio or Korg even E-Mu all seem to make good interfaces
If you can afford it you might like to think about a BCR2000 which will give you an interface as well as a controller box.

Stubborn is good!

All the best
Royce

Title: Re: Midi note is played when key is released
Post by DaveS on Mar 29^th, 2013, 1:15pm

Now, why didn't I think of that. I just bought the Win7 machine about a month ago and stored the XP in my dead computer parts room.

I plugged the JX-1 into the XP with the USM-422 midi usb cable. Much to my surprise. I get exactly the same result there. ???

Title: Re: Midi note is played when key is released
Post by Breath on Mar 29^th, 2013, 7:57pm

Hi Dave
The rabbit hole gets deeper!!

There are only three parts to this.
The feedback cable test should have shown the keyboard problem if there was one, with hanging notes.
You did check this with a sustaining sound I take it?
You did connect In to Out , not thru, with a single cable?

Do you have another Midi module?
You can plug the keyboard Midi Out into the Module Midi In ie removing the interface and computer from the equation?
If you do, see if the notes hang on the module.

You have tried two computers and two OSs and replaced the interface.

Really the only thing I can think of is a borrow a different midi keyboard or midi interface (just one or the other).

I can see from your MidiOx outputs that E5 is always the example that puts out note on instead of note off.
Is the problem just this note?

Such a weird problem.

Royce

Title: Re: Midi note is played when key is released
Post by DaveS on Mar 29^th, 2013, 9:01pm

Hi Royce,

You are so good to follow up on this. Thank you.

I did connect JX-1 IN to JX-1 OUT with a single midi cable and listened through the head-phone out. I tried several of the JX-1 presets and everything sounded correct.

I don't have any other midi devices that I can use for testing.

I returned the HosaTech midi/usb cable to the store. I have ordered a Roland UM-ONE midi / usb cable. I expect to receive that cable early next week and will post my experience with that cable.

Regarding E5 as the hanging note. It does not matter which two notes I press on the keyboard and then release. One of them sends a "note-on" rather than "note-off" depending on which is released first within mili-seconds. In fact, I found that if I play more than two notes simultaneously, only one sends an appropriate "note-off". The remaining keys send a very inappropriate "note-on".

Thanks again,
DaveS

Title: Re: Midi note is played when key is released
Post by DaveS on Mar 30^th, 2013, 3:35pm

PROBLEM SOLVED - Hooray!

I placed an order for a Roland UM-ONE midi/usb cable yesterday and it arrived already today.

Everything is working perfect!

http://www.davenotes.com/sites/default/files/images/MidiOx_UM-One.jpg

Thanks Royce and 4x4uk for all your help :)

Title: Re: Midi note is played when key is released
Post by Breath on Mar 30^th, 2013, 8:57pm

Excellent news.
It certainly was a new problem for me.

All the best
Royce

Title: Re: Midi note is played when key is released
Post by 4x4uk on Mar 31^st, 2013, 6:34am

looks like that original usb interface is a spacakaged copy of those cheap chinese units with the musical cleffNOne of them handle large or fast transfers and either lock up or send only part of the information

Least You have everything working as it should