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        MIDI-OX >> Questions and Discussion >> Convert Note On/Off to Control Change
        
(Message started by: GlennG on Apr 15^th, 2014, 10:45am)

Title: Convert Note On/Off to Control Change
Post by GlennG on Apr 15^th, 2014, 10:45am

How do I convert the Note on/off output from my Artisan Control System to the Control Change messages required to operate the pistons and stops of the Miditzer 260 Organ?

Title: Re: Convert Note On/Off to Control Change
Post by Breath on Apr 15^th, 2014, 7:41pm

In MidiOx make sure you have the Input Monitor, The Output Monitor and the Midi Port Routing windows open (under the View menu)

Option/Data Mapping...
In the Translation Map window Press the Clear button if there are already lines in there.
Insert button brings up another dialog.

When Input Matches
Any NoteOn -1 -1 -1 -1
Set Output to
MatchInput Ctrl 7 7 -1 -1

-1 =anything
So all incoming Note on messages (you might like to limit it to one channel).... convert to

CC (continuous controller) number 7 (volume for this example) and use the Velocity for the value

If you want to use the note number for the value select 'use input value 1 (Pull)' under the Amount boxes.

Click OK .

Now tick the 'Turn Map on (after OK)' and click OK

On the Port Routing window drag Artisan Control Midi In port to your Miditzer Midi Input.

If these are software things then you will need to download and set up MidiYoke (from here).
Connect the output of Artisan to MidiYoke1.
Connect the input of the Miditzer to MidiYoke2.
In MidiOx connect the input of MidiYoke 1 to the Output of MidiYoke2.

You should see notes coming in the Input monitor and CC messages on the Output Monitor.

All the best
Royce

Title: Re: Convert Note On/Off to Control Change
Post by GlennG on Apr 16^th, 2014, 4:46pm

Breath,
Thanks for your reply.
I'm sorry that I didn't fully describe my setup.
The MIDI output cable from the Artisan System attaches tp the MIDI IN of an FGA 610 audio interface. Most of the Virtual Organs that I load into Hauptwerk use the MIDI Note On/ Note Off messages from Artisan to operate all stops and pistons.

I want to use an organ that uses On/Off for the keyboards
but uses CC Messages for their stops and pistons.
I need to Map some of the output from the Artisan On/Off to CC.

Regards,
Glenn

Title: Re: Convert Note On/Off to Control Change
Post by Breath on Apr 16^th, 2014, 8:43pm

Hi Glen
You can use multiple lines in the datamap

In: C2 any velocity
1 NoteOn 24 24 -1 -1
1 Ctrl 17 17 -1 -1
change to CC17 with the value = velocity

Add the new line...
1 NoteOn 25 25 -1 -1
1 Ctrl 27 27 -1 -1
Now when a C#2 comes in it will be changed to CC27 with velocity as the value as well as the C2 -> CC17.

add as many lines as you need.

Note that some keyboards put out Note On with velocity = 0 for note off.

If your keyboard only puts out a single velocity you can
1 NoteOn 25 25 100 100
1 Ctrl 27 27 127 127

to turn on the stop.

You can do a lot with this filter, but can get a bit complicated.

You really need to give me details of the midi data you expect from the keyboard and the CC values that they need to be changed to.

Royce

Title: Re: Convert Note On/Off to Control Change
Post by GlennG on Apr 18^th, 2014, 10:59am

Hi Royce,

I need to learn more about MIDI-OX to fully understand your instructions. The help file is difficult to learn from.
Can you recommend a source that is more like a User Manual?

Title: Re: Convert Note On/Off to Control Change
Post by Breath on Apr 18^th, 2014, 7:52pm

Hi Glen
I don't know of any other documentation. Sorry.

Send me detailed info on what you want to do, for example
Channel 1 Note C 2 -> Channel 1 CC 23 value 0 and 1 (Off is 0)
Channel 1 Note C#2 -> Channel 10 CC 3 value 10 and 8

As you can see, even trying to list what needs to be done can be complex.

With the info you give me I'll write a data map for you that can be loaded into MidiOx.

All the best
Royce

Title: Re: Convert Note On/Off to Control Change
Post by GlennG on Apr 18^th, 2014, 8:55pm

Royce,

I'll print the Help Topics so that I really understand what I want to do. With the organ I'm using there are perhaps a hundred changes I need. I'll Proceed with this but it is going to take a long time. Thanks for your help to date. I'll get back with a listing of what I need.
Regards,
Glenn

Title: Re: Convert Note On/Off to Control Change
Post by sweetbb on Nov 12^th, 2016, 8:52am

Hi,

I have the same issue, but with other hardware and software. I have a midi encoder (from Midi Boutique) that can only generate note on / note off messages for the digital inputs. I would however like to modify them to CC messages, as the software that I need to control, uses CC to automate the midi in that system.

My software only needs to be controlled via 1 single midi channel, with various midi cc messages for the various controlls.

Will I need to setup code for each note on to be converted to CC, or would it be done with a single line of code?

Any help will be appreciated.

Regards,
Brian.

Title: Re: Convert Note On/Off to Control Change
Post by Breath on Nov 12^th, 2016, 6:19pm

Hi Brian

You can set ranges in the data map
eg
Channel 1 NoteOn 24 64 -1 -1 - as an input means 'take any NoteOn message on channel 1 when the note is between 24 an 64 (I don't care about the velocity)
Channel 4 CC -1 -1 100 100 - as an output means convert & output CC message on channel 4 - copy the first data (Note number to CC type) but make the value = 100

channel 1 NoteOn 45 68 becomes channel 4 CC 45 100
channel 1 NoteOn 63 127 becomes channel 4 CC 63 100
channel 1 NoteOn 65 112 is not converted as is
channel 1 NoteOn 23 49

If you need to use the notes at the top and the notes at the bottom you can use 2 lines

Channel 1 NoteOn 0 12 -1 -1 - 0 to 11 is the lowest NoteOn octave
Channel 4 CC -1 -1 100 100
and
Channel 1 NoteOn 115 127 -1 -1 - 116 to 127 is the highest NoteOn octave, but you could use any range between 0 and 127 and more lines if you need htem
Channel 4 CC -1 -1 100 100

All the other notes are passed through untouched.

I hope this helps

Royce

Title: Re: Convert Note On/Off to Control Change
Post by sweetbb on Nov 13^th, 2016, 4:14am

Thank you Royce.

Alhtough I have 4 hardare midi interfaces on my computer, with 2 of them being connected to midi harware, I get an error message saying the following:

There are no MIDI input devices.

I cannot get past this point.

Can one automate the startup of midi ox, in order to make thing easier. I use IPMidi, the network and local software loop. I hope it will work well together.

Regards,

Brian.

Title: Re: Convert Note On/Off to Control Change
Post by sweetbb on Nov 13^th, 2016, 7:56am

I seem to have located the problem. I also use 'midimon' for checking messages from time to time. It seems after running this applcation, the midi devices are missing, even after exiting the midimon software.

No I need to setup the midi devices. I want the input from the midi interface not on note off to be converted to control change . I am using ipmidi as 'n software midi cable to connect the output from midi ox to the input of my software instrument that I want to control.

Please help.

Brian.

Title: Re: Convert Note On/Off to Control Change
Post by Breath on Nov 16^th, 2016, 11:12pm

Hi Brian

All Midi interfaces, including software ones, need to be on before you start MidiOx
When MidiOx starts it gets a list of all available Midi devices, but after that it doesn't look again.

Have you set up your Midi In and Out devices in Options/Midi Devices ... ?

If you get the "No Midi Input" error again you could try to deselect the Midi Port in Options/MidiDevices... close the dialog.
Then reopen the Options/Midi Devices... and re-select it.

Problems of the Midi port not being available could be due to a single -client driver.
With this type of driver, if the interface is in use by another application, it is not available to any other application.
Good Midi interfaces have a Multi-client driver that allows more than one piece of software to have the same Midi port open at the the same time.
MS has a rubbish generic driver that the really cheap interfaces use and it ISN'T multi-client.

So, ideally, your Midi interface needs to have come with a driver disk to install for Multi-Client.
Why do you need ipmidi, are you going over Ethernet?
There is MidiYoke here at MdiiOx that is multi-client (32 bit) software Midi cable .

As far as automating the startup, MidiOx pretty well remembers the exact state you left it in when you closed the program and returns it to that state when it starts again.

I think you need to tell me te details of your Midi setup including what Midi Boutique encoder you have and if you are connecting it by Midi or USB.
What are the Midi Interfaces you are using and how you are using ipMidi?

All the best
Royce

Title: Re: Convert Note On/Off to Control Change
Post by sweetbb on Nov 21^st, 2016, 12:31pm

HI Royce,

Thank you for your response.

"All Midi interfaces, including software ones, need to be on before you start MidiOx. When MidiOx starts it gets a list of all available Midi devices, but after that it doesn't look again."

All my midi interfaces are on when the computer starts. I have switched over to the interface on my m-audio delta 1010lt card."

"Have you set up your Midi In and Out devices in Options/Midi Devices ... ?"

Yes.

I think I have discovered the problem with the error message. My computer is built into my organ console, and this is not the most convenient place to work with a computer. So I thought using 'Windows remote desktop' would do the trick, but it seems to cause the error. Once I tried working at the console computer, this error no longer took place.

"If you get the "No Midi Input" error again you could try to deselect the Midi Port in Options/MidiDevices... close the dialog.
Then reopen the Options/Midi Devices... and re-select it."

When this error occurs, there are no entries in the Midi devices dialogue.

The interface I was using seems stable and solid, it is a midi to usb cable with a driver CD. I have however abandoned the use of this cable and I am gooing to use the midi interface on my m-audio delta 1010lt card. I have tested it today and it works nicely.

"Why do you need ipmidi, are you going over Ethernet?
There is MidiYoke here at MdiiOx that is multi-client (32 bit) software Midi cable."\

I bought IP midi years ago because I thought about using multiple computers in my organ console. It is also a local loop software cable, that is the only reason I use it.

As far as automating the startup, MidiOx pretty well remembers the exact state you left it in when you closed the program and returns it to that state when it starts again.

"I think you need to tell me te details of your Midi setup including what Midi Boutique encoder you have and if you are connecting it by Midi or USB.
What are the Midi Interfaces you are using and how you are using ipMidi?"

The midi encoder I am using from Midi Boutique, is the MCE32064.

The reason I think I need midi-ox is because this encoder does not generate CC on the switches, but only note on and note off messages. Some of the software I want to use, cannot be controlled with note on and note off messages, but instead the software needs CC messages. I do not fully understand how the conversion process will work either, because when you press a button it will generate a note on event and when you lift your finger off the button, it will generate a note off message. I have no idea what CC values to use, I still need to try and find out what to use. I know what CC to use, but not the value inside the CC.

I think I should use it as follows:

midi input -> midi ox -> convert note on and off events on a channel to CC on a different channel -> output midi ox IP Midi -> connect IP Midi to VST host input - inside vst is the instrument that I would like to control (could be any instrument as most use CC).

Regards,
Brian.

Title: Re: Convert Note On/Off to Control Change
Post by sweetbb on Nov 25^th, 2016, 11:06pm

Hi Royce,

I have checked the output of another controller that outputs CC messages. On the first press of the button, it sends one value. On the next press of the button, it sends another value, and on the third press, it starts with the first value again.

I have absolutely no idea how to accomplish this with just one button.

Regards,

Brian.

Title: Re: Convert Note On/Off to Control Change
Post by Breath on Nov 26^th, 2016, 6:29pm

Hi Brian,

What you are describing is called toggling switch.
I am unsure if this is a problem or what you want.

Just to recap Midi....
Most Midi messages are 3 numbers (bytes)
Status + data1 + data2

The type of Midi messages is in the status byte.
Midi message type and channel are combined in this one status number

For NoteOn data1 is the note number and data2 is the velocity of the key press.

For Continuous Controller (CC) data1 is the type of controller (there are 128 types ... 0 to 127) data2 is the value.

So the map will change the status byte from NoteOn (& channel) to CC (& any channel)
You then select a key (or key range) to change it to a CC type
You then select a velocity (or velocity range) to change it to a CC value.

Perhaps you can give the details of what all the Midi messages you want to come out of the MCE32064.
Also exactly what Midi messages you want to turn them to.

All the best
Royce

Title: Re: Convert Note On/Off to Control Change
Post by sweetbb on Dec 21^st, 2016, 2:35pm

Hi Royce,

My MCE32064 midi encoder from Midi Boutique, can only generate note on and note off messages.

I need to turn then into CC messages, and it seems some messages should only be thae same every 2'nd, like you say, toggle.

I would for example like to control NI B4 II.

Regards,
Brian.

Title: Re: Convert Note On/Off to Control Change
Post by Breath on Dec 22^nd, 2016, 11:08pm

Hi Brian,

From the manual it looks like the MCE32064 puts out Note on when you press and Note Off when you release and there is no way to modify this.

MidiOx can easily handle momentary action or change a Note On to a CC message and Note Off to a different CC message but this won't work for you.
Some thing has to remember what state the switch is in so it can change it to the opposite state when you press the button.
You can sort of do this by swapping data maps on the fly, but its not the right approach is there are lots of Note to CC toggles.

It is possible to do this in the MidiOX script.

There is another product that can handle conditional Midi (if on, midi value = 0 else value = 100) and that is Bome's Midi translator.
Unfortunately only the Pro Version does this and cost 59euros.

Sadly I have done very little with MidiOx's scripting, because if I needed something like this I would just write a program in C++.

Perhaps someone else can help here.

If you get stuck with the script feel free to write again and perhaps I can have a look.

All the best
Royce.