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        MIDI-OX >> Questions and Discussion >> Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
        
(Message started by: Travelinni on May 20th, 2019, 2:42am)
Title: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Travelinni on May 20th, 2019, 2:42am
Hello.
I'm really at the end of my tether. Spent all night searching over the internet , went to korg forums no answer.

I'm using Midi-Ox to dump my patterns and songs to sysex files which is no problem.

The problem is when I'm trying to re-load them back to the Electribe :
-Or it gives me the memory error
-Or i have to put a real slow buffer and still it doesn't work

On the manual Korg says it's channel 1 , I'm not sure how to send sysex on that channel or if midi-ox is sending sysex on all channels but all my midi ins and outs are all correctly linked.

Well and even when the sysex is successful my electribe doesn't perform the writing which is also specified on the manual it says that at the end of the transfer give about 10 seconds or so the electribe can perform the writing which it doesn't!

I'm on windows 10 , I have a midisport 2x2 , I've installed the latest M-Audio drivers.

I've also tried Bome Send-SX and no success whatsoever and I tried all speeds , all settings and nothing.

I'm desperate and frustrated.

Please help.
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Breath on May 20th, 2019, 8:32pm
Hi
just a few things to check.
You have turned off the Global Protect . "In Global mode, turn memory protect off." manual page 88

Is the Midi channel set to match the Midi data??
"The EMX-1’s system
exclusive message format is [F0, 42, 3n, 69, ff, ... F7].
F0: exclusive status
42: Korg ID
3n: [n=0~F] global MIDI channel 1~16
69: the EMX-1’s model ID
ff: function ID (type of message)
...
F7: end of exclusive"  Manual page 85

Load the Midi sysex dump into the Sysex page of MidiOx (View / Sysex.. then on the new dialog Command Window / Load..)
Check the third number (it will be 30 or 31 or 32 or 33 ... 3D or 3E or 3F).
Ignore the "3" and look at the 0 to F character
It is hexadecimal.
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9  A  B   C   D  E  F
The Midi Channel is 1 to 16 (the character +1)
Use this to set the global Midi channel
OR you could try changing the Global Midi channel until it works.

I am assuming you are following all the instructions in the "Reception" section of the manual page 82

Let me know how you get on.

All the best
Royce
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Travelinni on May 21st, 2019, 6:52am

on 05/20/19 at 20:32:50, Breath wrote:
Hi
just a few things to check.
You have turned off the Global Protect . "In Global mode, turn memory protect off." manual page 88

Is the Midi channel set to match the Midi data??
"The EMX-1’s system
exclusive message format is [F0, 42, 3n, 69, ff, ... F7].
F0: exclusive status
42: Korg ID
3n: [n=0~F] global MIDI channel 1~16
69: the EMX-1’s model ID
ff: function ID (type of message)
...
F7: end of exclusive"  Manual page 85

Load the Midi sysex dump into the Sysex page of MidiOx (View / Sysex.. then on the new dialog Command Window / Load..)
Check the third number (it will be 30 or 31 or 32 or 33 ... 3D or 3E or 3F).
Ignore the "3" and look at the 0 to F character
It is hexadecimal.
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9  A  B   C   D  E  F
The Midi Channel is 1 to 16 (the character +1)
Use this to set the global Midi channel
OR you could try changing the Global Midi channel until it works.

I am assuming you are following all the instructions in the "Reception" section of the manual page 82

Let me know how you get on.

All the best
Royce


Hi Royce.
Thank you for your kind reply and taking the time to help me in this situation.

It's the  Korg EM-1 the black one not the EMX-1 my friend.

http://www.vintagesynth.com/sites/default/files/2017-05/em1.jpg

Yesterday I took everything up to my older desktop computer with windows 7 installed both midi-ox and bome send sx and still no success with the bulk dumps.

Tried all sorts of midi speed on it but the EM-1 seems to stop responding in lower buffer settings.
With Midi-Ox it gave me error saving SysEx dumps (error writing file).

So I don't think this is due to windows differences so I'm back down on my laptop with windows 10.

In higher settings the transfer completes fine but the EM-1 doesn't perform the Writing function at the end .

The only one that worked was the Global dump because it's a very small dump ,transfer was immediate and the EM-1 lit Write on it's own (Bome SendSX) .
The EM-1 receives it and performs write on it's on which is we want to happen with the bulk Dumps of : Pattern A , Pattern B , Pattern C , Pattern D and Songs but this is really frustrating and sad , I've been after this for 4 days in a row now as I really love to make music in the Electribe and not using Daws or the computer unless there's musical works I want to multi-track.

The EM-1 only allows to perform Dumps of :
Bank Pattern A , Bank Pattern B , C and D , Songs and Global (which I think it's just the global settings defined such as writing protection off , midi filter settings  , clock , metronome and the midi channels).
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Travelinni on May 21st, 2019, 7:08am

on 05/20/19 at 20:32:50, Breath wrote:
Hi
You have turned off the Global Protect . "In Global mode, turn memory protect off." manual page 88


yes it's off buddy.


Quote:
Is the Midi channel set to match the Midi data??
"The EMX-1’s system
exclusive message format is [F0, 42, 3n, 69, ff, ... F7].
F0: exclusive status
42: Korg ID
3n: [n=0~F] global MIDI channel 1~16
69: the EMX-1’s model ID
ff: function ID (type of message)
...
F7: end of exclusive"  Manual page 85


I think it should be , in the manual it says it's channel 1 , how to you say on Midi-Ox : Look I want to transfer this on channel 1.


Quote:
Load the Midi sysex dump into the Sysex page of MidiOx (View / Sysex.. then on the new dialog Command Window / Load..)
Check the third number (it will be 30 or 31 or 32 or 33 ... 3D or 3E or 3F).  
Ignore the "3" and look at the 0 to F character  
It is hexadecimal.
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15  
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9  A  B   C   D  E  F
The Midi Channel is 1 to 16 (the character +1)
Use this to set the global Midi channel
OR you could try changing the Global Midi channel until it works.


Let me have a look at the of what i think at least somewhat ''successful'' midi dumps that i've done have some info that can sort this out once and for all.


Quote:
I am assuming you are following all the instructions in the "Reception" section of the manual page 82


yes It  says that the ''program'' should send a request to the EM-1 etc and so on . I've been back and forth with everything and the manual doesn't help much at all.
I even contacted Korg and they couldn't be bothered themselves!
''Oh just play with the buffer settings. Or it can be your midi interface blablabla'' - they said.
Seriously?
I'm really not happy about Korg really.
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Travelinni on May 21st, 2019, 7:19am

Quote:
Load the Midi sysex dump into the Sysex page of MidiOx (View / Sysex.. then on the new dialog Command Window / Load..)
Check the third number (it will be 30 or 31 or 32 or 33 ... 3D or 3E or 3F).  
Ignore the "3" and look at the 0 to F character  
It is hexadecimal.
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15  
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9  A  B   C   D  E  F
The Midi Channel is 1 to 16 (the character +1)
Use this to set the global Midi channel
OR you could try changing the Global Midi channel until it works.


Ok Breath I did as you asked and here's the Dump.
It has the 30 as you said and the F0 at the start.
I don't know about the rest and I apologise for that.

This is a bulk dump of Pattern B (01 to 64)


I checked the ending of the dump and it ends in 00's.

http://i68.tinypic.com/b9j7mo.jpg

If the dumps are ok , my questions go down to :
-how to I set the global midi channel in midi ox to channel 1
(because that's what the manual says)
- and the right buffer settings for a successful transfer

if everything is correct the transfer should be successful and the EM-1 will receive and finalize the transfer by performing ''Write'' on it's own.

Any help is appreciated thank you.


Some updates and other notes :
- Bome Send FX is freezing in my laptop no matter what midi speed i set it on to.
- The Global Dump ends in F7.
- In my Windows 7 Desktop computer it was the only dump that worked and it was really fast.

Regardig Midi-Ox (On my Windows 10 laptop where I am now) :
- Low Level Output Buffer Size 256/32 - Error
- Low Level Output Buffer Size 512/32 - Error
- Low Level Output Buffer Size 1024/32 - Error

Also tried 256/64 - Error.

Low Level Output Buffer Size 64/32 it's very slow but it seems to work but I don't think the Electribe is performing the Write function after completion.

This is becoming a very strange situation.

1-Windows 10 and the laptop could be the issue.
2-I tried Windows 7 Desktop PC , Global Dump was the only one that worked on standard midi speed (on BomeSendSX) all the other dumps do the same as on my laptop.
3- Windows 7 Desktop PC , using Midi-Ox to save SysEx dumps gives me: ''error writing file''.

At this moment i think that using the desktop would be best unless you have a perfect solution for this to work with win10 laptop or a good solution for win7 desktop pc.

Another note :  Both computers have the midiman midisport 2x2 latest drivers installed from M-Audio.
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Travelinni on May 21st, 2019, 8:46am
Ok i went back to my desktop windows 7 .

Midi Ox pattern dump successful this time . Managed to save.

Made a global dump and reloaded it back and so far it's the only one that works.
It only memorizes the global settings nothing more.
Now on both midi-ox and bome send sx this is the only function that's working and it's instant.

With the pattern dumps and song dumps i'm not having any success.

output level buffers in midi ox are 128/32. Windows 7 Desktop PC.
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Travelinni on May 21st, 2019, 10:45am
Someone told me to add 600ms buffer delay in between , i tried both , none works.
still same settings 128/32. only dump that is working so far is global dump the rest it doesn't.

i also tried to run the Universal Device Inquiry.syx but i'm not getting a response right after as electribe shaman shown on his ER-1 page:

http://electribe.cc/wp/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/CapInquiry.png

So maybe i'm doing something wrong i'll probably have to do a send/receive in order to get a message back which I'm going to try now.

The weird thing is that the other dumps don't end up with F7!
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Travelinni on May 21st, 2019, 11:10am
So yep ends up i was doing it wrong here's my Korg EM-1 Universal Device Inquiry :

http://i67.tinypic.com/wgwbrl.jpg

I also added an F7 to the dumps that end up in 00 but in the end of the process the EM-1 gives out Error:

Er.1 - Data Could Not Be Written.

My EM-1 has no problems receiving sysex as it shows the loading icon on LED.
The problem is that when sysex transfering is complete the EM-1 ends up stuck in the loading icon and doesn't do anything after that.

If I go back to patterns and such nothing has changed.

The only one that I got working is the global dump which is useless because it only remembers the global settings you're on, it doesn't save anything else.

From the manual :

When the EM-1 receives a data dump, it will take up to
ten seconds to write the data into memory (the Write
key will light). Never turn off the power of the EM-1 during this time. Doing so may damage the data.

And this is what is not happening except for receiving a global data sysex receiving data dump.

I have no problem writing patterns and songs so I don't know why the pattern dumps and song dumps are not registering in.
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Breath on May 21st, 2019, 10:48pm
I typed "EM-1 manual" into Google and got the EMX-1 manual
Sorry I wasn't watching close enough.

Lets step through this ...
For starters with sysex, it always starts with F0 and ends with F7
I got the EM-1 Midi spec from http://www.korg-datastorage.jp/Software/MIDIImp/EM1.pdf
I can't test any of this as I don't have a EM-1 (or an EMX-1 for that matter) so let me know how you get on.

F0 42 3x (confusingly written as 3c in the pdf) 61 is the header - I'll assume midi channel 1

The command for "Current Pattern Dump Request" is 10, so try to send this message to get the current pattern
F0 42 30 61 10 F7

The returned data MUST have a F7 at the end.

According to the pdf the size of the Pattern Dump is 1764 bytes (Table 2)
See ( 8 ) Current Pattern Data Dump on page 4
When looking at the MidiOx input monitor, the incoming sysex is broken up into blocks when there is more than 256 bytes in a single message.
(This is just for display. There won't be extra F7 at the end of each block)
So if the data doesn't have an F7 right at the end of the last block you are missing one or more blocks.

This large sysex size brings us to another problem and it is a major one and that is the Midi interface driver.
If it is the MS one it is limited to a max size of 256 for and single midi message.
BUT you are using a Midisport 2x2 with the M-Audio driver and so this shouldn't be an issue.

Requesting specific Pattern bank dump
F0 42 30 61 1C xx F7
xx = 0 Bank A
xx = 1 Bank B
xx = 2 Bank C
xx = 3 Bank D

Let me know how you get on with these dumps.

There is also a WRITE message mentioned in the Midi spec so perhaps you need to send this message before it writes the Pattern data you have sent.

All the best
Royce
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Travelinni on May 21st, 2019, 11:34pm

on 05/21/19 at 22:48:03, Breath wrote:
F0 42 3x (confusingly written as 3c in the pdf) 61 is the header - I'll assume midi channel 1


yes that's correct.


Regarding midi speeds :
Yes , I'm not running with windows midi drivers , my midiman midisport 2x2 needs to have the M-Audio drivers installed , windows doesn't provide them.

I'm running both buffers @ 128/32.

I'll try and get back to you soon as possible and try inputting those commands that you've wrote. :)


Quote:
There is also a WRITE message mentioned in the Midi spec so perhaps you need to send this message before it writes the Pattern data you have sent.


Yes. That's supposed to happen after a successful midi sysex upload to the Korg EM-1 as the problem I have is sending midi dumps to it and it doesn't perform the WRITE at the end.
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Travelinni on May 21st, 2019, 11:44pm

Quote:
The command for "Current Pattern Dump Request" is 10, so try to send this message to get the current pattern
F0 42 30 61 10 F7

The returned data MUST have a F7 at the end.

Requesting specific Pattern bank dump
F0 42 30 61 1C xx F7
xx = 0 Bank A
xx = 1 Bank B
xx = 2 Bank C
xx = 3 Bank D


ok got it. will follow your instructions and i'll come back soon as possible.

So basically you want me to program midi-ox to send the em-1 message : ok i want this dump  and then the em-1 will dump it automatically without having to access the ''PRESS SHIFT+KEY15'' in order to dump manually.

Ok so I'll try that and let's hope there's an F7 at the end. If there is then re-uploading back to the EM-1 it'll probably be successful.

Are there no codes for the Songs dump?
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Travelinni on May 22nd, 2019, 5:18am

on 05/21/19 at 22:48:03, Breath wrote:
I typed "EM-1 manual" into Google and got the EMX-1 manual
Sorry I wasn't watching close enough.

Lets step through this ...
For starters with sysex, it always starts with F0 and ends with F7
I got the EM-1 Midi spec from http://www.korg-datastorage.jp/Software/MIDIImp/EM1.pdf
I can't test any of this as I don't have a EM-1 (or an EMX-1 for that matter) so let me know how you get on.

F0 42 3x (confusingly written as 3c in the pdf) 61 is the header - I'll assume midi channel 1

The command for "Current Pattern Dump Request" is 10, so try to send this message to get the current pattern
F0 42 30 61 10 F7

The returned data MUST have a F7 at the end.

According to the pdf the size of the Pattern Dump is 1764 bytes (Table 2)
See ( 8 ) Current Pattern Data Dump on page 4
When looking at the MidiOx input monitor, the incoming sysex is broken up into blocks when there is more than 256 bytes in a single message.
(This is just for display. There won't be extra F7 at the end of each block)
So if the data doesn't have an F7 right at the end of the last block you are missing one or more blocks.

This large sysex size brings us to another problem and it is a major one and that is the Midi interface driver.
If it is the MS one it is limited to a max size of 256 for and single midi message.
BUT you are using a Midisport 2x2 with the M-Audio driver and so this shouldn't be an issue.

Requesting specific Pattern bank dump
F0 42 30 61 1C xx F7
xx = 0 Bank A
xx = 1 Bank B
xx = 2 Bank C
xx = 3 Bank D

Let me know how you get on with these dumps.

There is also a WRITE message mentioned in the Midi spec so perhaps you need to send this message before it writes the Pattern data you have sent.

All the best
Royce


Done what you asked and still nothing.
Dumps end in 00.
Here's a Pattern A dump if you wanna take a closer look at it.

https://www.sendspace.com/file/2uffuk
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Travelinni on May 22nd, 2019, 8:57am

Quote:
When looking at the MidiOx input monitor, the incoming sysex is broken up into blocks when there is more than 256 bytes in a single message.
(This is just for display. There won't be extra F7 at the end of each block)


yes that's also correct.
I can see that midi-ox sends each block within a certain byte capacity and i can see that it always ends up with an extra message ending in F7 on the monitor (if you need this info let me know and i'll take a screenshot of it for you to see).
Regarding the SysEx dumps they all end in 00 and this is really puzzling now.

Please note that I've already tried adding F7 manually to the final character of the SysEx dump string and the electribe gives out Error ER.1 - Could not write function and my global write protection setting is set to OFF.


Quote:
I got the EM-1 Midi spec from http://www.korg-datastorage.jp/Software/MIDIImp/EM1.pdf


Yes that's the right one.  :)

I truly hope that you can find what is going wrong with this and we can work together to reach a solution regarding this problem.
I literally looked everywhere over the internet and there are no solutions whatsoever regarding these old generation electribes as I've seen many other users having the same problem with their ER-1's and so on.
In my case , I have to rely in sysex because these old generation electribes don't have  a SD card or Smartmedia slot as the EMX-1/ESX-1 do , so we're all stuck.
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Sonus on May 22nd, 2019, 4:00pm
http://i.imgur.com/kvv0p9d.png

Request EM-1 current pattern data by sending F0 42 30 61 10 F7

CURRENT PATTERN DATA DUMP = 5 + (1764 x 8/7) + 1 = 2022 bytes

Pattern A Bank.syx seems to miss 129031 - 128000 = 1031 bytes

BANK PATTERN DATA DUMP = 6 + (1764 x 8/7 x 64) + 1 = 129031 bytes
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Travelinni on May 22nd, 2019, 4:07pm

on 05/22/19 at 16:00:10, Sonus wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/kvv0p9d.png

Request EM-1 current pattern data by sending F0 42 30 61 10 F7


ok will do.
Thanks for joining this topic.


Quote:
CURRENT PATTERN DATA DUMP = 5 + (1764 x 8/7) + 1 = 2022 bytes  
 
Pattern A Bank.syx seems to miss 129031 - 128000 = 1031 bytes  
 
BANK PATTERN DATA DUMP = 6 + (1764 x 8/7 x 64) + 1 = 129031 bytes

Does this mean that the one I uploaded is missing 1031 bytes?

So in total the dump has  to reach a total size of 129031 right?
I'll give it another shot.
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Travelinni on May 22nd, 2019, 4:42pm

on 05/22/19 at 16:00:10, Sonus wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/kvv0p9d.png


CURRENT PATTERN DATA DUMP = 5 + (1764 x 8/7) + 1 = 2022 bytes

Pattern A Bank.syx seems to miss 129031 - 128000 = 1031 bytes

BANK PATTERN DATA DUMP = 6 + (1764 x 8/7 x 64) + 1 = 129031 bytes


Ok here are the results to your information:

http://i64.tinypic.com/nb436r.jpg

So according to your information the EM-1 is not dumping the total number of bytes. Why is that?


Quote:
Request EM-1 current pattern data by sending F0 42 30 61 10 F7


Did that  , all the EM-1 does is sending a bunch of info and midi-ox receives a certain number of bytes nothing else.
Tried saving it and loading it up but doesn't do anything.



http://i66.tinypic.com/2up8z1x.jpg
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Sonus on May 23rd, 2019, 9:30am
Adding EOX to incomplete files doesn't make any sense, did you already try EM1-SoundDesigner-A.syx (https://forum.korg.de/index.php?t=msg&th=8729&goto=36346&S=99fc90a440270583bfed2022a60be2fa#msg_36346)?
Initial buffer settings 256x32 usually work well but you also might test with larger buffers 1024x16.
If still not working, try different configurations: another synth, computer or midi interface...
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Travelinni on May 23rd, 2019, 10:43am

on 05/23/19 at 09:30:17, Sonus wrote:
Adding EOX to incomplete files doesn't make any sense, did you already try EM1-SoundDesigner-A.syx (https://forum.korg.de/index.php?t=msg&th=8729&goto=36346&S=99fc90a440270583bfed2022a60be2fa#msg_36346)?
Initial buffer settings 256x32 usually work well but you also might test with larger buffers 1024x16.
If still not working, try different configurations: another synth, computer or midi interface...


thanks for the link.
I actually tried to download this the other day and it was giving me no permission but through you it worked.
I'll follow your buffer instructions.

I tried with my laptop windows 10 and it's really slow regarding the buffers so i'm using my  desktop with windows 7 instead.

I've had a roland jv-1080 before and had no problems transfering sysex and I was a total noob at it at the time.


Quote:
Adding EOX to incomplete files doesn't make any sense,

Well yeah that's why the EM-1 was giving out Er.1 Can't Write
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Travelinni on May 23rd, 2019, 11:51am

on 05/23/19 at 09:30:17, Sonus wrote:
Adding EOX to incomplete files doesn't make any sense, did you already try EM1-SoundDesigner-A.syx (https://forum.korg.de/index.php?t=msg&th=8729&goto=36346&S=99fc90a440270583bfed2022a60be2fa#msg_36346)?
Initial buffer settings 256x32 usually work well but you also might test with larger buffers 1024x16.
If still not working, try different configurations: another synth, computer or midi interface...


Good news is , that dump worked.
Output buffers 128x32
buffer delays both 60.

Regarding my dumps still nothing . Here are some tests I wrote down:

1024x16/512x16 = 128000b/122880b
2048x16 = 126976b
2048x32 = 126976b
4096x32 = 126976b

If the dump you sent worked that means there's nothing wrong with my midi interface right?
I don't get this , I kept trying all sorts of buffer combos but keeps stopping at the damn 128000
:-/

At least we narrowed this problem down to the input buffers , the output buffers are not the problem.

I've no idea why my dumps aren't reaching the 129031bytes .
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Sonus on May 23rd, 2019, 6:06pm
Good news indeed...

MIDI Loop Test: connect your interface output to EM-1 midi-in and the input to EM-1 midi-thru.
In MIDI Devices, select the input and output, uncheck 'automatically attach inputs to outputs'.
In SysEx Configure, set the low level buffers 128x128 with 100ms delay between buffers.
Now load EM1-SoundDesigner-A.syx in command window and send/receive sysex...

http://i.imgur.com/NcuPmYH.png
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Travelinni on May 23rd, 2019, 6:58pm

on 05/23/19 at 18:06:19, Sonus wrote:
Good news indeed...

MIDI Loop Test: connect your interface output to EM-1 midi-in and the input to EM-1 midi-thru.
In MIDI Devices, select the input and output, uncheck 'automatically attach inputs to outputs'.
In SysEx Configure, set the low level buffers 128x128 with 100ms delay between buffers.
Now load EM1-SoundDesigner-A.syx in command window and send/receive sysex...

http://i.imgur.com/NcuPmYH.png



oki doki bro let's go! :)
let's nail this sucker down.
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Travelinni on May 23rd, 2019, 7:31pm
At first soon as i plugged the midi thru to midi in the monitor was going crazy receiving all sorts of messages in purple.

Was only receiving 128bytes.
So , i changed the midi in to port B and midi out to port A
The one I'm using :
http://i63.tinypic.com/x1y63q.jpg
The pictures not my actual one took it off wikimedia but that's my midi interface just disregard all those connections just in case you're thinking. :P

After changing the ports I changed everything back to as you asked and there ya go.

MidiSport2x2               Midi A In / Midi A Out.
Korg EM-1                   Midi Thru / Midi In



Midi loop result:
http://i67.tinypic.com/20r8ute.jpg

Identical:
http://i65.tinypic.com/2rxv5af.jpg
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Breath on May 23rd, 2019, 9:58pm
OK, it looks like you are receiving the Sysex OK now.
Lets rule out the computer interface.

Disconnect all Midi cables on the interface.
Connect a midi cable between Midi In B on the interface to Midi Out A.
So whatever is sent out Midi Out A is returned by Midi In B.

Now in MidiOx on the Port Routings window connect the Midi-Ox Event Port, on the bottom left, to the Midi Out A.
So when you send you sysex file it will be sent to A and then echoed to B and back into MidiOx.

Check that you got it all and, if you can, that it is the same data.

Next.
Now that we know that you can get a dump successfully, try starting the Dump using the EM-1 rather than requesting it by sysex.
I suspect the Korg is sending the dump and a "write" sysex message.

Send it back with the write message at the end.

Note on buffers.................
This use to be a problem as computers were so much slower and only had a small amount of memory.
These days they are fast and have a LOT of memory.

As this sysex is so big it might be a problem with timing for the synth writing all that data to flash memory.
My guess is that the Korg has enough fast static RAM to hold a full dump and then when it receives the Write command it writes it away at it own pace, but
you can still slow it down by adding delays between buffers.
Goto View / Sysex... and then on that dialog goto Sysex / Configure

Unclick Auto-adjust Buffer Delays and set it to 100mSec (or higher).
Note that when you get it working you should reduce this value to the smallest possible +10 if it is greater than 256

Reducing the buffer size will mean the Korg gets the sysex in smaller chunks and will have time (Buffer Delay) in between each block.
You could bring the buffer size down to 64/128 or even 32/256, but I don't think it will be necessary.
I have mine set at 256/32 and I rarely have a problem even on an old XP PC and synths from the 80's. It is usually the synth that has trouble.


The delay after F7 is only needed when you are sending multiple data message all at once, like dumping a bank of patches or when a synth breaks up a patch into blocks (Roland, E-mu etc).

If you have other equipment that you use MidiOx for sysex dumps you may have to adjust it back again so the dumps don't take forever.


Let me know how you get on.
Royce
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Travelinni on May 23rd, 2019, 10:08pm

Quote:
Disconnect all Midi cables on the interface.
Connect a midi cable between Midi In B on the interface to Midi Out A.
So whatever is sent out Midi Out A is returned by Midi In B.

Now in MidiOx on the Port Routings window connect the Midi-Ox Event Port, on the bottom left, to the Midi Out A.
So when you send you sysex file it will be sent to A and then echoed to B and back into MidiOx.

Check that you got it all and, if you can, that it is the same data.

ok so now you want to loop test the midi interface , no problemo. :)


Quote:
Next.  
Now that we know that you can get a dump successfully, try starting the Dump using the EM-1 rather than requesting it by sysex.
I suspect the Korg is sending the dump and a "write" sysex message.


Yes it is indeed.
I will take a screenshot of it for you to see , it shows up on Midi-Ox's monitor. It ends up in F7.

The thing is why is the synth not dumping the full and correct amount and that's why my dumps aren't working at all.


Quote:
Unclick Auto-adjust Buffer Delays and set it to 100mSec (or higher).  
Note that when you get it working you should reduce this value to the smallest possible +10 if it is greater than 256


At the moment it's @ 100ms as Sonus suggested.


Quote:
Reducing the buffer size will mean the Korg gets the sysex in smaller chunks and will have time (Buffer Delay) in between each block.
You could bring the buffer size down to 64/128 or even 32/256, but I don't think it will be necessary.
I have mine set at 256/32 and I rarely have a problem even on an old XP PC and synths from the 80's. It is usually the synth that has trouble.




Regarding the buffer sizes , yes i've noticed on the monitor.
Thank you for explaning all this.
I'll bring the buffer down if necessary , someone on the Korg forum informed me that the Electribe Shaman http://electribe.cc/wp/
says to set buffer ms up to 900 but that didn't work either.
Take note his is a ER-1 and not a EM-1 anyways.


Quote:
The delay after F7 is only needed when you are sending multiple data message all at once, like dumping a bank of patches or when a synth breaks up a patch into blocks (Roland, E-mu etc).


I'm not worried about that setting because I only load one bank at a time in sysex so that's good.

I'll follow your instructions and I'll get back to you soon asap.

Sooner we get this thing working the better so we can all walk out of this one smiling and with the relief that me , all EM-1 users and the internet will have all this and a solution finally provided.
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Travelinni on May 24th, 2019, 12:04am
Tried everything as you asked.

Did the midi loop with the interface , send sx , data sent ,  data was received but didn't register the sysex on the received square.
Don't know if that's supposed to happen  or not.


Manual dump.
Still stuck in 128000.  >:(

I'm starting to think that I'm going to quit this.
It's been nearly a week now and still stuck with this problem.
I wonder if there's something wrong with my EM-1 chip or something. ???

Here are a few more screenshots which I suspect it's the send/write message (nevermind the F7 I was the one that wrote it just damn desperate :-/ )

http://i67.tinypic.com/11ik5sz.jpg


And in this one there's two of them as you can see in the monitor MOX
http://i64.tinypic.com/2yl1cly.jpg
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Sonus on May 24th, 2019, 5:30am

on 05/24/19 at 00:04:09, Travelinni wrote:
I wonder if there's something wrong with my EM-1 chip or something. ???

Your Device Inquiery F0 7E 00 06 02 42 61 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 F7
This might be a v1.00 issue, did Korg ever release a system update?
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Travelinni on May 24th, 2019, 10:31am

on 05/24/19 at 05:30:16, Sonus wrote:
Your Device Inquiery F0 7E 00 06 02 42 61 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 F7
This might be a v1.00 issue, did Korg ever release a system update?


Hi Sonus.
No man , at least not that I know of  :-/
My EM-1 is in extremely good condition so this is really odd.  :-/
I don't think there ever was a firmware update for the EM-1.
According to the internet Korg released it in 1999-2001 and then stopped production moving on the EMX-1 next.
This box apparently is the more ''rare'' one and hardest one to get these days.
I really appreciate you guys are doing your best to solve this enigma , I'm really not happy about this , specially Korg they don't give two shits about their customers.

I'll try the midi loop test with the midi interface only and do a send/receive sysex with their bank if you guys want  , let me know if I done something wrong or if i missed something.
What's weird is that their dump loads up no problem because it's the proper size and mine are always stuck at 128000 , being the only dump that works from me it's the Global one that's bloody useless! Really raging mate!
Don't take me wrong , I love this instrument. It's like having Rebirth in a box especially if you love making acid it's a bliss and it's engine is different of the EMX-1 since this is kind of a rompler so it has no oscillators nor the tubes for that matter.
If it had the card function like the EMX-1/ESX-1 I wouldn't bother with this.
But Korg's a bloody nightmare!
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Sonus on May 24th, 2019, 3:30pm
Ok, another attempt...

Did you notice that received bytes divided by input buffer size always are round numbers?
If input buffer size 128 gives 128000 bytes, what's the result with buffer size 129 or 130?
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Travelinni on May 24th, 2019, 5:11pm

on 05/24/19 at 15:30:21, Sonus wrote:
Ok, another attempt...

Did you notice that received bytes divided by input buffer size always are round numbers?
If input buffer size 128 gives 128000 bytes, what's the result with buffer size 129 or 130?


Ok buddy , good question.
Let's try that. :)
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Travelinni on May 24th, 2019, 5:34pm
130/32
130/64
http://i66.tinypic.com/2h3u2rq.jpg


129/32
129/64
http://i66.tinypic.com/2h3u2rq.jpg

128/64
128/32
Back to the same result 128000

127/64
http://i63.tinypic.com/noyhab.jpg

same load of ballix   :-/  :-X :-[
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Sonus on May 25th, 2019, 4:30am
Well, thanks for testing anyway! Here's a possible workaround by using a hex editor...

In 'EM1-SoundDesigner-A.syx' copy pattern 64 (1F026~1F805), exactly 2016 bytes.
Paste this file to the incomplete '128000' pattern dump also at address 1F026.
Finally add EOX, the edited file 6 + (2016 x 63) + 2016 + 1 = 129031 bytes.
Here in MIDI-OX pm, you'll find a link with 'Pattern_A_Bank_129031.syx'.

If this is working well, you could now save at least 63 user patterns...
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Travelinni on May 25th, 2019, 8:56am

on 05/25/19 at 04:30:07, Sonus wrote:
Well, thanks for testing anyway! Here's a possible workaround by using a hex editor...

In 'EM1-SoundDesigner-A.syx' copy pattern 64 (1F026~1F805), exactly 2016 bytes.
Paste this file to the incomplete '128000' pattern dump also at address 1F026.
Finally add EOX, the edited file 6 + (2016 x 63) + 2016 + 1 = 129031 bytes.
Here in MIDI-OX pm, you'll find a link with 'Pattern_A_Bank_129031.syx'.

If this is working well, you could now save at least 63 user patterns...



Hi Sonus.
Thank you for working this out for me.

Am I supposed to find the code 1F 00 26 and copy it 'till 1F 80 50?
Regarding adding EOX , sorry , how do I do that?
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Sonus on May 25th, 2019, 2:17pm
You're welcome!

Pattern_64.bin copied from hex address 1F026~1F805 is in the workaround.zip
So you have to paste this file to an incomplete dump at hex address 1F026.
Like you've done before, add EOX value F7 at the end of the new file.

Pattern_A_Bank_129031.syx is ready for sending to the EM-1...
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Travelinni on May 25th, 2019, 3:23pm

on 05/25/19 at 14:17:05, Sonus wrote:
You're welcome!

Pattern_64.bin copied from hex address 1F026~1F805 is in the workaround.zip
So you have to paste this file to an incomplete dump at hex address 1F026.
Like you've done before, add EOX value F7 at the end of the new file.

Pattern_A_Bank_129031.syx is ready for sending to the EM-1...


Yeah I was wondering about the .bin file.
So let me see if got this right :
just load my incomplete dump and drag and drop your .bin file onto it

is that right?


Quote:
Like you've done before, add EOX value F7 at the end of the new file.


ahh ok got that.

How do I load the .bin in midi-ox?



sorry i'm a bit slow on these things.

can i do the same with pattern b , c and d bank dumps?

i'm only asking because i have a complete track made with bank A and i don't want to lose it.

or  can I dump it first and then do what you've said and try to reload it again but let me know first-hand please because I don't want to lose my music (hence the first reason why I had to come down here asking for your help and also because I love my musical instrument).

And as you mentioned I should also avoid using pattern 64 because it's the one that will be rewritten by Korg's Sounddesigner-A.

Did I get it right?

I'm positive your workaround is going to work.
If it does I'll be eternally grateful to you guys.

There must be some ''bug'' in the machine or in their firmware , hence the reason you asked me about the firmware version and as far as I know , Korg never released anything.

Luckly enough you managed to grab one of Korg's dumps so at least a guy can hack their own dumps ffs lol

I'll be really happy as long as it works and don't care about the ''bug'' really , i'll just avoid pattern 64's  ;D

Commodore Amiga for ex. also has it's bugs and we we're all and still happy with it and loads of people making music in it  ;D

so thumbs up.

just please let me know how to load the .bin file and i'm ready to go and kill this topic (hopefully!)
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Sonus on May 25th, 2019, 5:15pm
You'll need a hex editor (https://mh-nexus.de/en/hxd/) to copy paste 'Pattern_64.bin' at the right address!
It should work with bank A, B, C, D, the difference is the 0, 1, 2, 3 header.
Upload the banks and pm a link if you feel unsure about this workaround!
To keep it simple and if not really necessary, indeed avoid pattern 64 ...
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Travelinni on May 25th, 2019, 5:16pm
I tested your dump .
In order for it not to dump it on my A bank i just changed the numbers at the start where it says 00 to 01 and some 43 number right after it .

I know this because i dumped a pattern bank B first compared both files , hope for the best and :
-I didn't lose my patterns in bank A
- Your dump worked.

Let me know how to open the .bin file in midi-ox.

Is there a way you can ''hack'' the song dump ?

Here's my dump file (which is not working as you know) they're much smaller in size since I think song mode only stores the pattern order number just like :

01 -  pattern xx
02-  pattern xx
and so on.

Song dump :

Here's my song dump:
https://www.sendspace.com/file/w33eyh


You probably won't be able to fix this one as we're missing at least a proper dump.
If not  , at least i'm grateful i'll be happy to reload my patterns again and re-sequence them in song mode as needed.
I compose my songs pattern by pattern so it's not a problem.
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Travelinni on May 25th, 2019, 5:19pm

on 05/25/19 at 17:15:25, Sonus wrote:
You'll need a hex editor (https://mh-nexus.de/en/hxd/) to copy paste 'Pattern_64.bin' at the right address!
It should work with bank A, B, C, D, the difference is the 0, 1, 2, 3 header.
Upload the banks and pm a link if you feel unsure about this workaround!
To keep it simple and if not really necessary, indeed avoid pattern 64 ...


Ok got it , gonna download it and keep this in mind . :)

As for song mode I might give Korg a phone call this coming week and ask them if they can send me a sysex dump of their songs but being as they are lazy as fuck they'll probably  say they don't have any EM-1's in store , but we'll see.


Your workaround worked and my first patterns were back so thanks a million for working this out. You guys are bloody geniuses.

I'm pretty sure that if i dump my patterns now and follow your instructions that it will work 100%.

I haven't tested it yet but I will.  8)

Plus you guys should know the buffers are not the problem.
What's left to see is if there's an actual problem with  my EM-1 or not but as i said before i seriously doubt it my EM-1 is in great condition.

I have a friend that also owns one. I might ask him to bring it over when he comes over to my place next time and test it.

Chances are that same shit is going to happen.
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Travelinni on May 26th, 2019, 9:20am
I invited my friend over this tuesday and bring his EM-1 so we'll test it aswel.

If his is successful there's a problem with my EM-1.

And if it is I'll make a song dump from his  , I'll give it to you guys and if you guys can do a fix on it like Sonus (thanks a million mate ur awesome) did on pattern dumps it'll be much appreciated and I also won't have to phone Korg about it.

If his will have the same problem as mine does , then there's nothing wrong with my EM-1 and I'll phone Korg see if they can send me a song dump in whatever way they actually managed to do a proper dump.

Cheers guys , love you guys.

/Filipe
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Sonus on May 26th, 2019, 4:00pm
Good idea!

In the meantime you can test a tool to split a bank dump into 64 single patterns.
It has been described as CURRENT PATTERN DATA starting with F0 42 30 61 40.
This way you can send single patterns without overwriting internal bank data.

Check PM here and don't tell Korg...  :-X
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Travelinni on May 26th, 2019, 6:09pm

on 05/26/19 at 16:00:22, Sonus wrote:
Good idea!

In the meantime you can test a tool to split a bank dump into 64 single patterns.
It has been described as CURRENT PATTERN DATA starting with F0 42 30 61 40.
This way you can send single patterns without overwriting internal bank data.

Check PM here and don't tell Korg...  :-X


Wow niceeee!
Thanks men!
Don't worry about Korg ;) they're bloody idiots.
Love u man.  ;D
As I say on their forums FucKorg. Their fault for not caring about their musicians , not mine.

PM me for more awesome shtuuuffff  ;D
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Travelinni on May 28th, 2019, 1:14pm
Ok good news and bad news.
Good news - there's nothing wrong with my electribe.
Bad news - my friend's electribe done exact same thing 128000 dump.
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Sonus on May 29th, 2019, 7:07am
Transmitting an EM-1 bank straight to another EM-1 would have been the ultimate test.
If positive, your midi interface might be an issue in this specific configuration.
If negative, then we could finally conclude the EM-1 itself has midi bugs.

So no definite answer yet...
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Travelinni on May 29th, 2019, 7:54am

on 05/29/19 at 07:07:07, Sonus wrote:
Transmitting an EM-1 bank straight to another EM-1 would have been the ultimate test.
If positive, your midi interface might be an issue in this specific configuration.
If negative, then we could finally conclude the EM-1 itself has midi bugs.

So no definite answer yet...


shit I missed that!
i'm sure that would've worked no problem!
I agree , it can be my midi interface or it's a bug in the em-1 as you're saying . thing is my midi interface doesn't have any  difficulties uploading the file back so it's weird just.
anyways i can use your patch in order to reupload the banks back on the em-1 if required. i'm really thankful that at least i'll be able to save my patterns and not losing my music projects.
As  for song mode it's not a problem , if i need to re-sequence in song mode it's cake.

If transmitting sysex dump to another em-1 and its successful then it's my midi interface.

If that's the case , Sonus , what's the best midi interface that you recommend to work with this?

Thanks a million for your help . I couldn't be any happier.
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Sonus on May 29th, 2019, 4:04pm
MIDISport is known to be very reliable but you can only solve the mystery by comparing.
It's weird that even a small CURRENT PATTERN dump (2022 bytes) doesn't work properly.
Maybe try a Roland UM-ONE or Cakewalk UM-1G with advanced driver but... no guarantee.

Best of luck!
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Travelinni on May 29th, 2019, 6:41pm

on 05/29/19 at 16:04:15, Sonus wrote:
MIDISport is known to be very reliable but you can only solve the mystery by comparing.
It's weird that even a small CURRENT PATTERN dump (2022 bytes) doesn't work properly.
Maybe try a Roland UM-ONE or Cakewalk UM-1G with advanced driver but... no guarantee.

Best of luck!


No worries. Thanks for your suggestion.

You're right , even in the song dump which is way smaller it doesn't dump it right the only dump that works is the global settings  >:(
In the electribe shaman page http://electribe.cc/wp/installation/ he suggests these two :
Elektron TM 1 Turbo Midi interface
Steinberg UR44 Audio Interface

but again he worked on the er-1 it might not work either.
I'll have a look at those two you suggested.

I own my  midisport for years and never behaved like this  , this is actually the first time i have an instrument that's behaving like this and my friends does exact same thing weirdly enough.
I'm pretty sure that if i would to a direct dump to another em-1 it would work no bother and if that's true then it's the midi interface or something.
:-/

Anyways thanks a million for the workaround , nothing is lost.
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Sonus on May 30th, 2019, 11:11am
You can use C6 (https://www.elektron.se/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Elektron_C6_MAC_AND_WIN_1.51.zip) for Elektron products with other midi interfaces... Give it a try!
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Travelinni on May 30th, 2019, 11:15am
Dumped all my tracks on the computer.
Done your workaround.
Result: Working.

Output buffers @  256 don't work , only 128.
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Travelinni on May 30th, 2019, 11:17am

on 05/30/19 at 11:11:23, Sonus wrote:
You can use C6 (https://www.elektron.se/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Elektron_C6_MAC_AND_WIN_1.51.zip) for Elektron products with other midi interfaces... Give it a try!


cheers will do!
Title: Re: Help with Korg Electribe EM-1
Post by Travelinni on May 30th, 2019, 11:39am
Tested it.
Same result 128000.


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