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   Author  Topic: Mapping cymbal choke aftertouch (no cc value)  (Read 1331 times)
wikedcircus
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Mapping cymbal choke aftertouch (no cc value)
« on: Jul 14th, 2018, 2:45pm »
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  Hello. I am in need of help. I have tried all of the normal means through the software I am using to get this to work with no success. I am just trying to get cymbal choke functionality with my current setup. Here's what I'm using: Simmons sd1000 ekit >Addictive Drums 2 >Fl Studio 20. Fl Studio doesn't seem to want to receive the aftertouch info correctly. How do I go about mapping the signal to a specific cc# so I can manually map it? Do I also need midi yoke? I am new to this level of midi implementation.
 
Thank you for your help
Ryan-
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Re: Mapping cymbal choke aftertouch (no cc value)
« Reply #1 on: Jul 16th, 2018, 2:06am »
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Hi Ryan
Sorry, it will appear to be a bit complicated.  
Give it a go and see how you get on.  
 
get MidiYoke and install it.
 
Start MidiOx and go to Options /  Midi devices and select MidiYoke 1 in and out as well as MidiYoke 2 in and out.  
 
You need to make 2 Midi data maps ......
Simmons -> AT to CC -> FL (Map 1)
and
FL -> CC to AT -> Simmons (Map 2)
 
go to Options / Data Mapping...
 
I am assuming that you want to change Channel Aftertouch (not Key Aftertouch) to a Continuous Controller.  
Let's use CC10 (normally Pan)
 
Map 1
If there is already something on the new dialog, press the CLEAR button.
Press the INSERT button and the 'Define Mapping' dialog appears.
 
The top line is the input you are getting from the Simmons, so select the Midi messages you are interested in..
Channel = 1; EventType = ChanAft; Pressure Max and Min = '-1' means 'any value'  
Note that AT only uses 1 data byte
 
The second line is what you want to change the After touch to. In this case CC10
Channel = 1, Event Type = Ctrl; The Ctrl # Min and Max = 10; - meaning only CC10
 'Amount' max and min - should be -1 ('any value')
 
Here is the tricky bit.  
As Channel Aftertouch only has one data value and CC has two you need to tick the 'Use input Value 1' under the CC 'Amount'
 
Click OK and save the Map as "ATtoCC10.oxm"
To check the Map works you can tick the 'Turn Map On later' next to the OK button. Now click OK
On the Midi Port Routings window (View / Port Routings...)  join the input from the Simmons (left side) to Midi Yoke 1 (right side)
When you send an AT messages from the Simmons, the Output Monitor should show you that the AT has been changed to CC10  
 
Map 2
Press the CLEAR button to remove the AT to CC10 map.
Press the Insert button and the 'Define Mapping' dialog appears.
The top line is the data you are getting from FL so set the Midi  to
Channel = 1, Event Type = Ctrl; The Ctrl # Min and Max = 10; 'Amount' max and min - should be -1 ('any value')
 
The second line is to convert the CC10 to After touch ..
Channel = 1; EventType = ChanAft; Pressure max and min = '-1'  
 
Again the tricky bit. As Channel Aftertouch only has one data value and CC has two you need to tick the 'Use input Value 2' under the AT 'Pressure'
 
Click OK and save this Map as "CC10toAT.oxm"
 
When it is all working untick the 'Turn Map On later' next to the OK button. This feature is used to apply this mapping to ALL routings and that is not what you want.
Now click OK
 
Finally you need to Route the Simmons to FL and FL back to the Simmons, so on the routing window
 
Simmons -> MidiYoke 1 and in FL set the input to MidiYoke 1
and  
Set FL output to MidiYoke 2 and in the MidiOx Routing window connect MidiYoke 2 to the Simmons
 
On each of the connecting lines in the Routing window there is a 'box' you can click and the 'Connection Properties' window will pop up
On the Simmons -> MidiYoke 1 select the 'Map File' "ATtoCC10.oxm"
On the MidiYoke 2 -> Simmons select the 'Map File' "CC10toAT.oxm"
 
MidiOx will remember all these connections when you close it down and restore it when you start MidiOx again.
 
Best of luck
 
Royce
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Re: Mapping cymbal choke aftertouch (no cc value)
« Reply #2 on: Jul 16th, 2018, 9:41am »
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Thank you so much! I will try this later today. Looks like a bit to learn, but well worth it. Hopefully all goes well.
 
Thanks again
Ryan-
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Re: Mapping cymbal choke aftertouch (no cc value)
« Reply #3 on: Jul 18th, 2018, 9:45am »
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Have been busy. I will post back by the end of the week.
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Re: Mapping cymbal choke aftertouch (no cc value)
« Reply #4 on: Jul 18th, 2018, 7:18pm »
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Ok. I set all of that up as instructed. I am not sure how to now get it to work
inside FL. When I open FL midi inputs, it shows my ekit as "fail" because it is being used by another program. Midi-ox I take it. I am not sure how to assign the aftertouch either, but I think there are instructions on how to midi learn through articulations or something.
 
Any further help would be appreciated.
 
Thanks!
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Re: Mapping cymbal choke aftertouch (no cc value)
« Reply #5 on: Jul 22nd, 2018, 11:17pm »
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Hi Ryan
 
Here is the Midi path...
ekit -> (via MidiOx - this is where AT is converted to CC)  MidiYoke1 -> FL  
FL -> MidiYoke2 (MidiOx - this is where CC is converted back to AT) -> ekit
 
In FL the  ..
Midi Input comes from MidiYoke 1
Midi Output goes to MidiYoke 2  
 
All the best
Royce
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Re: Mapping cymbal choke aftertouch (no cc value)
« Reply #6 on: Jul 23rd, 2018, 10:48am »
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 Thank you Royce for your reply. I had mapped the way you instructed.  
I am having trouble in FL. My ekit in the midi inputs setting shows "fail" when I have midi-ox open. Also, I don't see midi yoke as an option to assign in fl. Or do I just have to use a specific channel to route through midi yoke. I am still a noob when it comes to midi routing.
 
Thanks!
Ryan-
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Re: Mapping cymbal choke aftertouch (no cc value)
« Reply #7 on: Jul 24th, 2018, 3:29am »
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Hi Ryan
about your ekit in FL. Most likely the ekit uses Microsoft Class Compliant Midi driver.
The trouble with this driver is that it is single client. That is, only one application can use it at a time.  
(I believe there is a new one from MS that is multi client)
 
Start FL and de-select the ekit's Midi In and Out. Choose 'None' or something else.  
You will change it to MidiYoke when you have loaded the MidiYoke driver.
 
MidiYoke is another piece of free software from  Jamie O'Connell. The guy that wrote MidiOx.
You can find it to download on the same page you found MidiOx.
http://www.midiox.com/ and click on "Midi Yoke" in the list on the left.
 
I'm not sure what version of Windows you are using, but some people have had some trouble with Win10 - but many others haven't.
If you do have trouble, try loopMidi by Tobias Erichson http://www.tobias-erichsen.de/software/loopmidi.html
 
MidiYoke and loopMidi are just software 'Midi cables' to connect one program to another and you use MidiOx to connect them to the Midi hardware.
Both drivers are multi-client, that is, more than one program can hook into them, but in your case you are just using FL.
 
If you connect the single client MS ekit driver to MidiYoke or loopMidi in MidiOx, suddenly your ekit has a multi-client driver.
ekit -> MS driver -> MidiOx -> MidiYoke 1 -> Many programs
 
Now you can connect the ekit In (now called MidiYoke 1 in the Midi In of the program) to many programs without the error you see in FL at the moment.
 
But that is only half a Midi interface (just the Midi input)  you need another software 'Midi cable' to form the Midi Out.
 
ekit <- MS driver <- MidiOx <- MidiYoke 2 <- Some programs  
 
So in all of your programs, including FL, you select ekit Midi In as MidiYoke 1 and for MidiOut to the ekit use MidiYoke 2.
 
NOTE MidiOx must also be running so the data from and to the MS ekit driver can be re-routed to MidiYoke 1 and MidiYoke 2
 
 
NOTE MidiYoke 1 and MidiYoke 2 (and MidiYoke 3 ... MidiYoke Cool are all the same.  
They are all just a "software cables".  
You could use MidiYoke 2 as Midi In from ekit to FL and MidiYoke 7 as the output cable from FL. Whatever you like.
You just have to route the MS ekit Midi In to one 'Midi cable' and use a different one to route the data from FL to the MS ekit out.
 
 
I'm sorry it seems a bit complicated, but once you get how to use these software 'Midi cables' you will see that you can do all kinds of stuff.
Taking the data from one program and feeding it to some other program as if it was a build in feature of the first program.
 
Feel free to keep asking questions.
 
All the best
Royce
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Re: Mapping cymbal choke aftertouch (no cc value)
« Reply #8 on: Jul 24th, 2018, 8:34am »
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Thanks so much. I will try your suggestions when I have a fresh brain!
 
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Re: Mapping cymbal choke aftertouch (no cc value)
« Reply #9 on: Jul 29th, 2018, 12:10am »
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Hey Royce, I installed midi yoke, yet I don't see it in the device manager to activate ports. This is why I was stumped. I hadn't even set up midi yoke, but I don't see it amongst the devices.
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Re: Mapping cymbal choke aftertouch (no cc value)
« Reply #10 on: Jul 30th, 2018, 1:01am »
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Hi Ryan
glad to hear you have acquired a fresh brain Cool
 
You don't mention what Win version you are using.
Some people have had some trouble in Win10 with MidiYoke
 
Does MYokeNT appear in Control Panel ?
Do any MidiYoke Midi drivers appear in MidiOx - Option / Midi Devices...   ?
 
Have you tried loopMidi by Tobias Erichson http://www.tobias-erichsen.de/software/loopmidi.html ?
That might be better for you and it works the same as MidiYoke.
 
Let me know how you get on.
 
Royce
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Re: Mapping cymbal choke aftertouch (no cc value)
« Reply #11 on: Jul 30th, 2018, 8:55am »
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Midi yoke shows up in midi ox devices, but is not in windows device mgr. I am using windows 10. I will try the other driver you suggested.
 
Thanks
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Re: Mapping cymbal choke aftertouch (no cc value)
« Reply #12 on: Jul 30th, 2018, 6:21pm »
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Hi. I installed Loopmidi, and it appears in FL's device list. I will give it a try again per your instructions with minimal confidence lol.
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Re: Mapping cymbal choke aftertouch (no cc value)
« Reply #13 on: Jul 30th, 2018, 6:34pm »
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Not sure if I routed the midi ports properly in Midi-ox, but I still get the "fail" message for my ekit in FL's midi devices. What do I need to do in FL to make it work?
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Re: Mapping cymbal choke aftertouch (no cc value)
« Reply #14 on: Jul 30th, 2018, 6:53pm »
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 Okay, can I get a slow clap... I think I get the process. Although it is activating the cymbal choke for the ride and not the crash. I didn't mention that I have 2 chokeable cymbals on my kit. I only need the crash to work. I could just switch my cymbals around I guess. The trick was assigning a port# to Loopmidi 1, then assigning my drum software to the same port. If it is possible to assign the crash intead of the ride lemme know,
 
thanks
Ryan-
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Re: Mapping cymbal choke aftertouch (no cc value)
« Reply #15 on: Jul 30th, 2018, 7:02pm »
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I always speak too soon. Although I thought it was a victory with the ride cymbal choke working, there is that dreaded midi feedback or doubling sound when I use the same port as Loopmidi.
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Re: Mapping cymbal choke aftertouch (no cc value)
« Reply #16 on: Jul 31st, 2018, 12:29am »
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on Jul 30th, 2018, 8:55am, wikedcircus wrote:
Midi yoke shows up in midi ox devices, but is not in windows device mgr. I am using windows 10.

 
It should show up in the device manager , but as long as it shows up in the Options/ Midi Devices.. in MidiOx you should be OK.
But loopMidi is great as well.
 
  Quote:
there is that dreaded midi feedback

Check the data flow
Make sure you have TWO loopMidi ports -  
In the right tool bar there is the LoppMidi icon. Double click to start the editor
Create "LoopMidi1" and "LoopMidi2" - now delete the default "loopMidi" so there is only 2
 
For FL.....
ekit -> (via MidiOx - this is where AT is converted to CC)  loopMidi1 -> FL  - Input is loopMidi1
Output is loopMidi2 - FL -> loopMidi2 (MidiOx - this is where CC is converted back to AT) -> ekit  
 
Worst case, don't allow FL to echo Midi on the drum track, that way you will only send Midi to the eKit during playback.
 
  Quote:
 I didn't mention that I have 2 chokeable cymbals on my kit. I only need the crash to work. I could just switch my cymbals around I guess.  
 
 
You will have to get specific about the Midi messages you are sending to the eKit.
I assume the eKit drum that sounds depends on which note is played.
Aftertouch from most keyboards is applied to all notes. This is called Channel AT or Monophonic AT and only has 1 data byte = the AMOUNT
The another kind of aftertouch is Key AT or Polyphonic AT where the AT Message has 2 data values, KEY (note) and AMOUNT.
 
It seems possible or even likely that the eKit is using Polyphonic AT and so you need to change the two Datamaps you built.
Select just the NOTE# (max and min = the same note) for Crash to be applied to the CC and back again.
Uncheck any of pulled values checkboxes
 
Is the choke ON / OFF or can it be gradual?
 
Before we go headlong into any more, let me know if that is the case with the eKit and KEY AT.
 
All the best
Royce
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Re: Mapping cymbal choke aftertouch (no cc value)
« Reply #17 on: Jul 31st, 2018, 9:55am »
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I think the choke is just on/off. You said that FL needs to output back through loopmidi 2. Do I just assign a port in FLs midi devices window, and set the output port in addictive drums to the same?
 
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Re: Mapping cymbal choke aftertouch (no cc value)
« Reply #18 on: Jul 31st, 2018, 7:04pm »
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It is working!! Thank you for the expanded midi knowledge kind sir.
Cheers
 
Ryan
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Re: Mapping cymbal choke aftertouch (no cc value)
« Reply #19 on: Jul 31st, 2018, 8:51pm »
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Well done.   Cool
 
Keep the questions coming.
Royce
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