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stonecut
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Midi Yoke and Logic not working ?
« on: Sep 27th, 2001, 3:19am »
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Hi !
 
I found your Midi Yoke tool which I think is great as Hubi's ain't working on Win 2k/XP.  
 
Anyway, once I fire up Logic and start a song it'll just lock up with Midi Yoke driver loaded. Is there any particular setting I need to make ?
Also, when I end Logic the program takes a long time to shut down - all this doesn't happen when I uninstall Midi Yoke. Anyone have a clue what might be wrong ?
 
Thanks !
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stonecut
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Re: Midi Yoke and Logic not working ?
« Reply #1 on: Sep 27th, 2001, 7:43am »
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Alright, I solved my own problem in the past hours. Here's how for all the other peeps having problems ...
 
To make Midi Yoke (under win2k/xp) work with Logic without having logic lock up you need to alter the win.ini.
Type 'sysedit' into your run window and locate the win.ini. Now scroll down to the [logic] part:
 
Here's mine (you'll have more/other midi devices apart from MidiYoke listed here):
 
[Logic]
keyPort=1
MidiIn_Creative_Sound_Blaster_MPU_401=1
MidiOut_Microsoft_GS_Wavetable_SW_Synth=7
MidiOut_Creative_Sound_Blaster_MPU_401=7
MidiIn_Creative_SBPCI_External_MIDI=1
MidiOut_Creative_SBPCI_Synthesizer=1
MidiOut_Creative_SBPCI_External_MIDI=1
MidiIn_MIDI_Yoke_NT___1=1
MidiIn_MIDI_Yoke_NT___2=0
MidiIn_MIDI_Yoke_NT___3=0
MidiIn_MIDI_Yoke_NT___4=0
MidiIn_MIDI_Yoke_NT___5=0
MidiIn_MIDI_Yoke_NT___6=0
MidiIn_MIDI_Yoke_NT___7=0
MidiIn_MIDI_Yoke_NT___8=0
MidiOut_MIDI_Yoke_NT___1=0
MidiOut_MIDI_Yoke_NT___2=0
MidiOut_MIDI_Yoke_NT___3=0
MidiOut_MIDI_Yoke_NT___4=0
MidiOut_MIDI_Yoke_NT___5=0
MidiOut_MIDI_Yoke_NT___6=0
MidiOut_MIDI_Yoke_NT___7=0
MidiOut_MIDI_Yoke_NT___8=0
 
The key is to TURN OFF *all* MidiOut_MIDI_Yoke_NT___X ports by typing a '0' behind the '='.
As I'm only using one MidiIn port I also turned off all the others. I now only have  
MidiIn_MIDI_Yoke_NT___1 active [indicated by a '1' behind the '='].
 
Apparently Hubi's has the same probs with Logic but when you use Hubi's I read you need to disable the 'IN-Ports' instead of the 'OUT-Ports' which actually does make more sense but I don't care as long as it works.
 
Hope this helps someone.
 
And thanks for Midi Yoke NT - any chance of getting the latency just a tid bit shorter ?!
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Jamie OConnell
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Re: Midi Yoke and Logic not working ?
« Reply #2 on: Sep 27th, 2001, 9:48am »
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Thanks for the tip for other Logic Users.  The MIDI Yoke NT latency is due to it's user mode multitasking, and cannot really be addressed without a redesign/rewrite.
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stonecut
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Re: Midi Yoke and Logic not working ?
« Reply #3 on: Sep 27th, 2001, 1:04pm »
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You're welcome for the tip, hehe.
 
I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for a great software that you say is no support for but you replied the same day I posted. That is more support than other companies offer for their products even if they cost money ...
 
I'm very sure that a 'rewrite' of the code for better latency would be much appreciated should you ever find the time for it. It is usable for rough stuff already (I'm a bad keyboarder anyway) but a little tighter timing would be nice indeed. There are no competitive virtual midi cables out for Windows XP except for Midi Yoke so investing time here would surely be beneficial to you.
 
Is there any 'unauthorized' (lol) way - like a registry tweak or some binary editing - that I could experimentally try out to reduce latency with Midi Yoke ?
 
Thanks for your answer !
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Jamie OConnell
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Re: Midi Yoke and Logic not working ?
« Reply #4 on: Sep 27th, 2001, 3:25pm »
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What kind of latency are you seeing?  Although MIDI Yoke NT is slower than the 9x version, it should only be a few milliseconds difference.  What programs, besides Logic, are you connecting to?  Are you trying to drive Software Synths with it?  If so, that's likely where your latency is coming from.
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stonecut
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Re: Midi Yoke and Logic not working ?
« Reply #5 on: Sep 27th, 2001, 7:18pm »
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No, I get the same lag when I play my standard soundcard synth on a MIDI channel. I can see the MIDI in meter in Logic react a little late, too. I can't pin on it but it could be anywhere from 20-100ms additional to behaviour under WinME. It might also have to do with Analog X Virtual Piano I'm running, though. I'll need to check.
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wayne
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Re: Midi Yoke and Logic not working ?
« Reply #6 on: Feb 4th, 2002, 11:13am »
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Embarassed Hi,
 
I followed the directions about logic, but when I put the zero's behind the midi yoke out lines in the win.ini file, Midi Yoke won't appear in Logic. If I leave them to one Midi Yoke will appaer in Logic, but logic locks up then.
 
Does someone have a solution? Please help. I don't want to go back to windows 98.
 
Thanks
 
Wayne Bornall
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Jamie OConnell
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Re: Midi Yoke and Logic not working ?
« Reply #7 on: Feb 4th, 2002, 11:36am »
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Although I don't have Logic, I think the idea is to make sure that you don't have a matching in and out set to '1'.  In other words if you set:
 
MidiIn_MIDI_Yoke_NT___1=1
 
then make sure that:
 
MidiOut_MIDI_Yoke_NT___1=0
 
conversely if:
 
MidiOut_MIDI_Yoke_NT___1=1
 
then make sure that:
 
MidiIn_MIDI_Yoke_NT___1=0
 
 
If you connect the same port number Input to Output, you get MIDI feedback which locks up the machine.
« Last Edit: Feb 4th, 2002, 11:37am by Jamie OConnell » IP Logged

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wayne
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Re: Midi Yoke and Logic not working ?
« Reply #8 on: Feb 5th, 2002, 4:09pm »
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Smiley Smiley Smiley It works!
 
It worked after following your directions.
 
Thanks for your help.
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kv
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Re: Midi Yoke and Logic not working ?
« Reply #9 on: Aug 19th, 2002, 3:42am »
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Hi all,
A word about the problems in logic:
While what was suggested in regard to editting win.ini is usefull for optimizing the number of threads used by midiyoke and hence improving midi latancy, the logic way to deal with this is to disconnect the sum input on the environment object 'Physical input' and connect your actual midi port directly to the 'sequencer' object.
This stops midiyoke patch cables from feeding back into the sequencer input.
Ah, and yes please; a kernal mode version of midiyoke - I'd buy that today Smiley
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Jamie OConnell
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Re: Midi Yoke and Logic not working ?
« Reply #10 on: Aug 19th, 2002, 5:25pm »
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Quote:
the logic way to deal with this is to disconnect the sum input on the environment object 'Physical input' and connect your actual midi port directly to the 'sequencer' object

 
OK. That sounds good from a marketing standpoint, but I don't know what that means from a programming point of view?  Huh
 
The idea of editing the WIN.INI was mostly to prevent MIDI feedback from ripping through the MIDI Yoke driver.
« Last Edit: Aug 19th, 2002, 5:28pm by Jamie OConnell » IP Logged

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kv
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Re: Midi Yoke and Logic not working ?
« Reply #11 on: Aug 27th, 2002, 4:14am »
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Hi Jamie,
It's not just about making a stand point.
I often use midi loopback to record realtime midi from other software into logic.
Disabling the midiyoke input ports in win.ini would make them unavalable in logic and hence unusable in this way, while managing them correctly on the environment page leaves the input ports available should you need to use them.
By default logic sums (merges) all midi in ports and connects them to the sequencer input and hence if any midi loopback divice is installed it will feed back.
This is a default and as with every thing in logic, it can be change and it is done so:
Open the Environment window and go to the leyer 'Click & Ports'.
There you see an item called 'Physical Input' with a connector for every installed midi input and one called 'SUM'.
Delete the wire connected to 'SUM' and make a new connection from the required input/s.
No more feedback.  Smiley
kv.
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Jamie OConnell
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Re: Midi Yoke and Logic not working ?
« Reply #12 on: Aug 27th, 2002, 6:16am »
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Thanks for explaining that. Wink
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dschaga
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Re: Midi Yoke and Logic not working ?
« Reply #13 on: Nov 10th, 2002, 4:43am »
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first msg here, so first thx for that slick tool.
 
here my solution for the feedback problem:
 
Code:

[Logic]
MidiIn_Creative_Sound_Blaster_PCI=1
MidiOut_Creative_Sound_Blaster_PCI=7
MidiOut_Microsoft_GS_Wavetable_SW_Synth=7
MidiIn_MIDI_Yoke_NT___1=0
MidiIn_MIDI_Yoke_NT___2=0
MidiIn_MIDI_Yoke_NT___3=0
MidiIn_MIDI_Yoke_NT___4=0
MidiIn_MIDI_Yoke_NT___5=1
MidiIn_MIDI_Yoke_NT___6=1
MidiIn_MIDI_Yoke_NT___7=1
MidiIn_MIDI_Yoke_NT___8=1
MidiOut_MIDI_Yoke_NT___1=7
MidiOut_MIDI_Yoke_NT___2=7
MidiOut_MIDI_Yoke_NT___3=7
MidiOut_MIDI_Yoke_NT___4=7
MidiOut_MIDI_Yoke_NT___5=0
MidiOut_MIDI_Yoke_NT___6=0
MidiOut_MIDI_Yoke_NT___7=0
MidiOut_MIDI_Yoke_NT___8=0

 
it's a result of different tests, so i found out that some ports are valid(1,3,5,7,9..) and some not (2,4,6,8..) and that you can only have 4 in and 4 out ports which shouldnt share the same yoke port number (?)
 
with this constelation everything works perfect with reason and LAP too on severals machines here.
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Re: Midi Yoke and Logic not working ?
« Reply #14 on: Jan 8th, 2003, 4:56am »
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Cool Please excuse my ignorance, as I'm new to Logic, Midi Yoke, and even Windows.  But here's the deal:  I'd like to set up Midi Yoke so that I can compose my notation on Sibelius, and then have the notes play back directly through a Logic Audio Instrument-like with some great samples in the EXS24.  As I understand it, this would require setting up Sibelius as the master and Logic as the slave, or going from a Midi Yoke output in Sibelius to a Midi Yoke input in Logic.  But I'm getting completely confused with the fact that I'm dealing with audio instruments that plug in as inputs on the tracks in the audio environment.  Where do I set up my Midi Yoke input in Logic?  In the flip menu of the desired audio instrument on the arrange page under 'inputs' or somehow in the environment or in the audio instrument itself?  I tried the above suggestions in the clicks/ports environment (deleting the cable connected to the summed inputs of the physical input and connecting it to the specific Yoke Port input I'm using and routing it directly out to the sequencer).  But I'm thinking that might be for using Logic as the controller as opposed to the slave?  I'm just very confused and am dying for some tips on this matter.  Man, it's frustrating.  Thanks in advance,
   Peter (my brain is fried at this point, so I don't know if I'm making sense). Cry Cry Cry
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Re: Midi Yoke and Logic not working ?
« Reply #15 on: Jan 23rd, 2003, 3:44pm »
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Thanks Stonecut!! You're the man!!
 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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Jamie OConnell
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Re: Midi Yoke and Logic not working ?
« Reply #16 on: Jan 24th, 2003, 12:56pm »
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Also check the information in our Logic FAQ
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Re: Midi Yoke and Logic not working ?
« Reply #17 on: Feb 1st, 2003, 6:15am »
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on Feb 4th, 2002, 11:36am, Jamie OConnell wrote:
Although I don't have Logic, I think the idea is to make sure that you don't have a matching in and out set to '1'.

 
Hi Jamie,
 
you're absolutely right. Just for the record: There's another feedback problem in Logic, so the hint to disconnect the MIDI Yoke ports from the Physical Input object in Logic won't cover the whole problem.  
Logic sends MIDI Clock events to all enabled MIDI ports by default. So even if you disconnect the MIDI Yoke ports from the Physical Input object, you still get feedback from the Logic sync input, as Logic feeds itself with MIDI Clock resp. MTC events.  
To fix that problem, you have to set the Logic MIDI Clock/MTC ports to a specific single port instead of the default setting using all ports. You'll find that setting in Options -> Song Settings -> Synchronisation Settings.  
This is a *per song* setting, so it would be useful to apply that settings to the Logic autoload song.  
Maybe it would be useful to add this information to the Logic FAQ.
 
Best regards
 
Manfred  
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Jamie OConnell
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Re: Midi Yoke and Logic not working ?
« Reply #18 on: Feb 2nd, 2003, 11:55am »
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Thanks for the info, I will try to work that into the FAQ  Wink
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Re: Midi Yoke and Logic not working ?
« Reply #19 on: Feb 2nd, 2003, 1:34pm »
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on Feb 2nd, 2003, 11:55am, Jamie OConnell wrote:
Thanks for the info, I will try to work that into the FAQ  Wink

Thanks a lot Smiley I just saw I made a mistake: It should read "disconnect the MIDI Yoke ports from the Sequencer Input object" instead of "Physical Input". The connection between Physical Input and Sequencer Input (the object representing the gate to the arrange tracks and the MIDI outputs) is causing the MIDI loop, or better said: One of the possible MIDI loops. Maybe this image shows better what I mean:  

As some other people mentioned before: All data that are assigned to a specific output of the Physical Input object, do no longer come out of the SUM output. In this case the data of MIDI Yoke Junction 1 will appear in the monitor object only, causing no MIDI loop thru the Sequncer Input object.
 
Best regards
 
Manfred
« Last Edit: Feb 2nd, 2003, 1:35pm by Manfred » IP Logged
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