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Topic: Midi Yoke and Logic not working ? (Read 11943 times) |
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Jamie OConnell
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Re: Midi Yoke and Logic not working ?
« Reply #20 on: Feb 2nd, 2003, 2:18pm » |
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Thanks for the clarification. I hope you don't mind if I use your diagram in the FAQ? I will give credit.
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Manfred
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Re: Midi Yoke and Logic not working ?
« Reply #21 on: Feb 2nd, 2003, 2:35pm » |
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on Feb 2nd, 2003, 2:18pm, Jamie OConnell wrote:Thanks for the clarification. I hope you don't mind if I use your diagram in the FAQ? I will give credit.
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Hi Jamie,
you're welcome  Just read some other threads in this board, and I think there are some hints needed concerning Logic and MIDI routing. As I write (together with Christian Baum) a Logic workshop in german Keyboards magazine, I know many of the problems and questions too well. Just let me know if you need some other screenshots or some further information on Logic.
Best regards
Manfred
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Jamie OConnell
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Re: Midi Yoke and Logic not working ?
« Reply #22 on: Feb 2nd, 2003, 2:41pm » |
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Quote:| I think there are some hints needed concerning Logic and MIDI routing. As I write (together with Christian Baum) a Logic workshop in german Keyboards magazine, I know many of the problems and questions too well. |
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Great. Please feel free to jump in and answer or shed light on anything people have said. If you have other URLs for information, that is helpful too. Thanks... 
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| « Last Edit: Feb 2nd, 2003, 2:41pm by Jamie OConnell » |
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dk01
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Re: Midi Yoke and Logic not working ?
« Reply #24 on: Feb 2nd, 2003, 5:39pm » |
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Hi,
GReat thread - thanks all - I am new here - first time "caller".
I am trying to use Yoke - as recommended by tech support
at Emagic - Jamie hope you know this - to get a free
midi port for Reason 2.0 when I am running it alongside
Logic...
Logic hogs the 1 midi port I natively have. So, if I go to
bring Reason to the foreground it has no midi input
available to it. Make sense?
But, for the life of me - I cant seem to get the settings
right in Yoke and Logic to allow midi data to flow out of
Logic through Yoke and into Reason...
Seems like Logic would just steal all ports that I had
if I had more native ones anyhow...
Any help? and I will buy you a cup of coffee (or tea)...
Yoke seems like the answer. OX is also awesome for people
that have no dedicated midi box.
Logic 6 with Rewire 2.0 will carry midi inherently so
that may solve the problem - but then I would have to
go all Mac...
Please someone help.
What do I set Reason's midi input prefs to?
I think I got the Logic environment set and even
Yoke (SORTA) set right... based on this thread?
But why cant I see the midi info pass through Yoke
and into Reason via Logic?
THanks,
David
ps - is a Yoke IN really an OUT and vice versa? something
about that I read and it confused me.
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Manfred
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Re: Midi Yoke and Logic not working ?
« Reply #25 on: Feb 2nd, 2003, 6:45pm » |
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on Feb 2nd, 2003, 5:39pm, dk01 wrote:Hi,
I am trying to use Yoke - as recommended by tech support
at Emagic - Jamie hope you know this - to get a free
midi port for Reason 2.0 when I am running it alongside
Logic... |
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Short question: What OS are you running?
Quote:Logic hogs the 1 midi port I natively have. So, if I go to
bring Reason to the foreground it has no midi input
available to it. Make sense? |
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Yes, this is a matter of multiclient capabilities of the specific MIDI driver. Means some drivers allow to be used by several applications, some other do not. If not, the first application demanding the driver will get it, for all other applications started later the driver will be not useable. If the later application tries to open the driver, you will get an error message the driver is already used by another application.
Quote:But, for the life of me - I cant seem to get the settings
right in Yoke and Logic to allow midi data to flow out of
Logic through Yoke and into Reason...
Seems like Logic would just steal all ports that I had
if I had more native ones anyhow... |
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Only if the MIDI driver has no multiclient capabilities. And MIDI Yoke CAN handle several applications at the same time - otherwise it would make no sense.
Quote:| Any help? and I will buy you a cup of coffee (or tea)... |
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Coffee for me please 
Quote:
I will try...
Quote:| What do I set Reason's midi input prefs to? |
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Set it to one MIDI Yoke Junction port that can be used as output in Logic, see below.
Quote:I think I got the Logic environment set and even
Yoke (SORTA) set right... based on this thread?
But why cant I see the midi info pass through Yoke
and into Reason via Logic? |
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What exactly did you set up? First be shure, not to allow Logic to use the same MIDI Yoke Junction port for input and output at the same time. Therefore you have to modify the win.ini file, if not done so far. See other postings for the right settings. My standard setup constists of 4 MIDI Yoke Junction ports. Win.ini looks like this:
[Logic]
MidiIn_MIDI_Yoke_Junction___1=1
MidiIn_MIDI_Yoke_Junction___2=1
MidiIn_MIDI_Yoke_Junction___3=0
MidiIn_MIDI_Yoke_Junction___4=0
MidiOut_MIDI_Yoke_Junction___1=0
MidiOut_MIDI_Yoke_Junction___2=0
MidiOut_MIDI_Yoke_Junction___3=7
MidiOut_MIDI_Yoke_Junction___4=7
In Logics Environment layer 'Click&Port' you have several MIDI output objects created by Logic. One for each enabled MIDI output. You may use the one of them as track instrument, that corresponds to the MIDI Yoke port you have set in Reason as MIDI input. Then the incoming data in Logic should go from the Physical Input object, through the Sequencer Input, passing the track to the MIDI output object. This only works if the track is selected in the arrange window.
If you wish a continuous connection between Logic and Reason for your incoming data, independent from any track settings, you should make a direct connection from the Physical Input object to the MIDI Output object. If you cable from the SUM output of the Physical Input to a Monitor obejct, and from that Monitor object to both Sequencer Input ('to recording and thru') and the MIDI Output, you will have all connections you had before plus the Reason direct MIDI connection.
You may additionally use arrange tracks set to the MIDI Yoke port as well, e.g. for playing recorded sequences from Logic to Reason on another MIDI channel than your keyboard uses.
Quote:ps - is a Yoke IN really an OUT and vice versa? something
about that I read and it confused me. |
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MIDI Yoke ports can be both, depends on your settings. In one application you set a MIDI Yoke port as output, e.g. Logic. In another application you use the same port as input, e.g. Reason. Midi Yoke reports every MIDI Yoke Junction node both as input and output device to the system. And that's exactly what causes the problems with Logic: Logic registers all available MIDI ports. So the same MIDI Yoke port will show up both as input and output. That means a complete MIDI short circuit of Logic with itself. Therefore you never ever should use a MIDI Yoke port as input and output in Logic at the same time. The settings, which MIDI ports Logic uses and which not, is made in the win.ini file, see earlier postings in this thread.
Btw: If you ask yourself, what the numbers in the win.ini file mean, here is:
0= port disabled
1= port enabled
7= port enabled and succesfully transmitted sysex data
3= port disabled by Logic, warning has been displayed to the user
Best...
Manfred
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dk01
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Re: Midi Yoke and Logic not working ?
« Reply #26 on: Feb 2nd, 2003, 8:47pm » |
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Win XP is the OS.
Need to reread this thread and try some of this stuff..
Manfred, to say that you simply ROCK - would be a
grand understatement - seems like there is a solution
in here somewhere
Coffee on the way - what country are you in?
I will report back soon...
Thanks,
DK
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Jamie OConnell
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Re: Midi Yoke and Logic not working ?
« Reply #27 on: Feb 3rd, 2003, 2:51pm » |
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Quote:ps - is a Yoke IN really an OUT and vice versa? something about that I read and it confused me.
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From the Driver Writers point of view, an OUT really is an IN: an application attaches a MIDI Output port to emit data. From the driver's point of view this Output port is really an Input to the driver. Similarly, an application attaches to an Input port to receive data. Again, from the driver's point of view this Input port is really an Output, where it's taking the data from an external source (keyboard) and supplying it to the application. Thus, MIDI Yoke (a driver) takes any information showing up at its Output port and reroutes it to emit it from its Input port, therefore supplying any attached applications.
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| « Last Edit: Feb 4th, 2003, 2:35am by Jamie OConnell » |
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Manfred
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Re: Midi Yoke and Logic not working ?
« Reply #28 on: Feb 4th, 2003, 12:02am » |
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on Feb 3rd, 2003, 2:51pm, Jamie OConnell wrote:
From the Driver Writers point of view, an OUT really is an IN:
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And from the users point of view it's somewhat confusing  I think most people don't realize that MIDI Yoke is a MIDI device itself, as it only shows up in the applications driver lists. Just have another case of MIDI confusion: In some MIDI implementation chart pitch bend data is displayed as hex code. So half an hour after I wrote about pitch bend data of a device, I got back a mail, complaining that there is not pitch bend, but sysex instead
Best...
Manfred
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dk01
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Re: Midi Yoke and Logic not working ?
« Reply #29 on: Feb 4th, 2003, 3:19pm » |
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So, not to get in the middle of the ins and outs debate 
but...
Manfred,
I have my wini.ini file setup near exact to yours as far as yoke
goes... and Logic doesnt seem to lockup and from that standpoint
I am better.
BUT - when Reason is "rewired" to Logic the midi data does not
make it through the yoke output to Reason.
But - when Reason is run simultaneously to Logic (NOT IN REWIRE) the midi data DOES IN FACT make it through Yoke
to Reason...
So, I seem to have the patching correct - at least understand
the bare essentials to get midi to flow through the YOKE
midi device to Reason...
Logic support suggested maybe just use midi-ox and have
midi input be sent from there to Reason. Sequence stuff and
have it Rewired to Logic and audio then could flow to Logic.
Not exactly what I am looking for. It could suffice...
BUT - maybe I can send midi via midi-ox to both Reason and
Logic and have what I want - simulatanoues midi input to
Reason and Logic while having the two Rewired. Will this
work?
I seem right on the cusp - AND maybe I am missing something
a setting or ?? - any further ideas?
thanks,
David
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Manfred
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Re: Midi Yoke and Logic not working ?
« Reply #30 on: Feb 4th, 2003, 5:22pm » |
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on Feb 4th, 2003, 3:19pm, dk01 wrote:| So, not to get in the middle of the ins and outs debate |
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There's no debate - Jamie is the master of the MIDI Ports, that's it
Quote:I have my wini.ini file setup near exact to yours as far as yoke
goes... and Logic doesnt seem to lockup and from that standpoint
I am better. |
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Fine!
Quote:BUT - when Reason is "rewired" to Logic the midi data does not
make it through the yoke output to Reason.
But - when Reason is run simultaneously to Logic (NOT IN REWIRE) the midi data DOES IN FACT make it through Yoke
to Reason...
So, I seem to have the patching correct - at least understand
the bare essentials to get midi to flow through the YOKE
midi device to Reason... |
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Did you try to play MIDI in ReWire mode, when Logic/Reason were in Playback mode?
Quote:Logic support suggested maybe just use midi-ox and have
midi input be sent from there to Reason. Sequence stuff and
have it Rewired to Logic and audio then could flow to Logic.
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Not neccessary, MIDI connection from Logic to Reason in ReWire mode via 1 MIDI Yoke node works, tried it 5 minutes ago.
Quote:BUT - maybe I can send midi via midi-ox to both Reason and
Logic and have what I want - simulatanoues midi input to
Reason and Logic while having the two Rewired. Will this
work? |
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Maybe it will, didn't try that. But you can also have Reason synchronized by Logic. Just start first Reason, then Logic, so you'll get no ReWire connection. Then set up one MIDI Yoke port as MIDI Clock output in Logic, same port in Reson as MIDI Clock input (Preferences->Advanced MIDI). ReWire contains synchronization capabilities itself, no need to make an extra MIDI Clock connection.
Quote:I seem right on the cusp - AND maybe I am missing something
a setting or ?? - any further ideas? |
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I think your main hangup is not to have Logic and Reason in Playback mode, when trying to play MIDI. If Logic/Reason is stopped, Reason will receive no more MIDI input from Logic (even not if an external MIDI source is connected, I tried that out). I think this is a matter of the combined ReWire 1/MIDI connection Logic and Reason have to use, instead of a real ReWire 2 connection, which will provide audio and MIDI all together.
So give it another try with ReWire, and hit Play before transmitting MIDI. Btw: You may automate resp. remote control Reason from the Logic Track Automation, using an additional MIDI Yoke port.
Best...
Manfred
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dk01
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Re: Midi Yoke and Logic not working ?
« Reply #31 on: Feb 4th, 2003, 5:55pm » |
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on Feb 4th, 2003, 5:22pm, Manfred wrote:| Did you try to play MIDI in ReWire mode, when Logic/Reason were in Playback mode? |
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No, I will try this - that did not occur to me - but your
explanation makes sense. Cool - how exciting!
on Feb 4th, 2003, 5:22pm, Manfred wrote:| But you can also have Reason synchronized by Logic. Just start first Reason, then Logic, so you'll get no ReWire connection. Then set up one MIDI Yoke port as MIDI Clock output in Logic, same port in Reson as MIDI Clock input (Preferences->Advanced MIDI). ReWire contains synchronization capabilities itself, no need to make an extra MIDI Clock connection. |
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Cool, I will get this working too as an alt. way to work...
on Feb 4th, 2003, 5:22pm, Manfred wrote:| Btw: You may automate resp. remote control Reason from the Logic Track Automation, using an additional MIDI Yoke port. |
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Can you explain this more - is this different than the sync/remote stuff you explained above? Use the Logic tracks to automate what in Reason? What is resp. an abbrev for?
(I swear I am not this dumb in real life)
Wow - problems (probably) solved - will confirm later when
I test it myself - but sounds like you know it does.
Your help is so much appreciated -
thanks,
DK
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dk01
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Re: Midi Yoke and Logic not working ?
« Reply #32 on: Feb 5th, 2003, 12:37am » |
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So,
it does work... but the latency is sooo bad
its unusable this way.
Manfred - do you experience this
Is it the audio latency or midi latency?
Seems like an audio latency thing to me...
Reason is in the foreground - Logic controlling audio
via Rewire in the background...
Maybe I will try the midiox junction idea and just
keep out of rewire slave mode...
I feel like an emagic slave - dang pc.
Hmmmm,
DK
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Manfred
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Re: Midi Yoke and Logic not working ?
« Reply #33 on: Feb 5th, 2003, 5:30pm » |
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on Feb 4th, 2003, 5:55pm, dk01 wrote:
Can you explain this more - is this different than the sync/remote stuff you explained above? Use the Logic tracks to automate what in Reason? |
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The whole Reason surface is remote controlable by MIDI Controller events, as far as I have seen. Reason reserves a special MIDI input for that purpose. So if you use another MIDI Yoke port for remote, and put this port as a track instrument in Logic, you may use the Logic 5 Track Automation to transmit MIDI Controller data to Reason. An Example: You may assign one or more MIDI Controller numbers in Reason to e.g. the Malström filters, using the Reason MIDI remote setup. Then draw curves in the Logic Track Automation to remote control the filters.
Quote:| What is resp. an abbrev for? |
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Respectively. Beg your pardon for my bad english, but I'm not a native speaker. Sometimes is not that easy to express things in a foreign language 
Quote:Wow - problems (probably) solved - will confirm later when
I test it myself - but sounds like you know it does. |
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At least here things work fine.
Best...
Manfred
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Manfred
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Re: Midi Yoke and Logic not working ?
« Reply #34 on: Feb 5th, 2003, 5:43pm » |
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on Feb 5th, 2003, 12:37am, dk01 wrote:So,
it does work... but the latency is sooo bad
its unusable this way.
Manfred - do you experience this |
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Not that bad as you describe it. I use an ASIO audio card with 256 samples buffer size, results in 6ms latency. Playing Reason thru Logic seems so result in double latency, one buffer for Reason, another for Logic. It's not really fast, but playable without problems.
Quote:Is it the audio latency or midi latency?
Seems like an audio latency thing to me... |
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I think you are right, this seems to be mainly an issue of audio latency. Maybe MIDI Yoke adds one or another millisecond, but that shouldn't result in an unuseable latency as you mentioned. What audio hardware are you using? Does that long latency also appear, if you play audio instruments in Logic?
Quote:Reason is in the foreground - Logic controlling audio
via Rewire in the background... |
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That's exactly what I did.
Quote:Maybe I will try the midiox junction idea and just
keep out of rewire slave mode...[/quote
Would be interesting if this works better.
[quote]I feel like an emagic slave - dang pc. |
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It's high time they publish a full ReWire 2 support. But I fear, this will be available on Mac only.
Best...
Manfred
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dk01
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Re: Midi Yoke and Logic not working ?
« Reply #35 on: Feb 5th, 2003, 5:48pm » |
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Sorry wrote this originally before your 2nd reply above:
1) no I dont have the latency issues with logic audio instruments
2) I am using a cheap audiophile 2496 card - havent fiddled with
any settings with it or logic or reason in terms of latency/driver things - but if you achieved usable results I figure I must be able to... assuming usable to me and you is the same thing - I mean right now I can do a 2 or 3 count before I hear the sound out of logic! And sometimes the note prior gets cut off.....!
I will fiddle with the ASIO driver settings etc.
Given the latency issues - and benefits of remote control...
should I scrap rewire use and run em as separate apps with
separate sound drivers? then get the remote controls working.
Rewire 2.0 is officially to be released as part of Logic 6 for Mac next month - tech support keeps suggesting switching 
I am considering switching to something else alright - like Digital Performer... if this cant be supported under PC. Love Emagic though.
Thanks,
DK
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| « Last Edit: Feb 5th, 2003, 5:56pm by dk01 » |
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dk01
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Re: Midi Yoke and Logic not working ?
« Reply #36 on: Feb 6th, 2003, 6:32pm » |
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Hey,
Success! ASIO driver set in Logic and hardware latency
set to 256 - and now no perceivable latency and my:
Logic + Reason + Rewire + Midiyoke = is working!
I did notice - which is completely not related to
yoke at all - that editing features of the Reason
sequencer and audio saving and recording of rewire
audio in Logic is NOT AVAILABLE. Manfred, is this
how your system works too? The recording in Logic
would be so helpful - but I guess its just meant
to tie the transport and a loop or sequence to your
work in Logic... oh well...
Midiyoke - though is awesome and was so up to this task!
Cool stuff thanks,
DK
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Manfred
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Re: Midi Yoke and Logic not working ?
« Reply #37 on: Feb 6th, 2003, 7:08pm » |
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on Feb 6th, 2003, 6:32pm, dk01 wrote:Hey,
Success! ASIO driver set in Logic and hardware latency
set to 256 - and now no perceivable latency and my:
Logic + Reason + Rewire + Midiyoke = is working! |
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Congratulations!
Quote:I did notice - which is completely not related to
yoke at all - that editing features of the Reason
sequencer and audio saving and recording of rewire
audio in Logic is NOT AVAILABLE. |
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Reason disables some audio and MIDI functions in ReWire mode, this is normal. Recording of ReWire tracks in Logic is done with the Bounce funktion. You do bouncing by hitting the 'Bounce' button in the Output object of the Logic Audio Mixer, to which the ReWire instruments are routed. Just open the Logic Audio Mixer, scroll to the right, and you will see the Output objects.
Possibly Logic will tell you that there's nothing to bounce. This is because ReWire instrument tracks contain no audio data. If you get this message, adjust start and end point of the region that should be bounced manually in the bounce window. Another option is to enable a cycle, that covers the region you wish to bounce. 'Bounce and add' will add the new created audio file to your Logic audio window, so you may put it to an audio track after bouncing.
Best...
Manfred
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sonarcade
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Re: Midi Yoke and Logic not working ?
« Reply #39 on: Jul 11th, 2003, 10:35pm » |
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I've tried using midiyoke to emulate rewire 2.0 and in doing so, I realized that the midi in Logic responds for a bit after starting up then suddenly stops responding, although it does respond to Reason when I open it rewired to Logic. Seeing this, I thought that Reason was stealing my midi in so I tried opening Logic by itself and it turns out that the midi stops responding whether I run Reason afterwards or not. Below are the parameters in my win.ini since I also find myself crashing Logic whenever I shut Logic down. Please help me stop from scratching my head on this since I think I've already started bleeding. Thanks.
MidiIn_MIDI_Yoke_NT___1=0
MidiIn_MIDI_Yoke_NT___2=0
MidiIn_MIDI_Yoke_NT___3=0
MidiIn_MIDI_Yoke_NT___4=0
MidiIn_MIDI_Yoke_NT___5=0
MidiIn_MIDI_Yoke_NT___6=0
MidiIn_MIDI_Yoke_NT___7=0
MidiIn_MIDI_Yoke_NT___8=0
MidiOut_MIDI_Yoke_NT___1=7
MidiOut_MIDI_Yoke_NT___2=0
MidiOut_MIDI_Yoke_NT___3=0
MidiOut_MIDI_Yoke_NT___4=0
MidiOut_MIDI_Yoke_NT___5=0
MidiOut_MIDI_Yoke_NT___6=0
MidiOut_MIDI_Yoke_NT___7=0
MidiOut_MIDI_Yoke_NT___8=0
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