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Topic: 64-bit MidiYoke ever? (Read 42843 times) |
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thx1200
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64-bit MidiYoke ever?
« on: Mar 15th, 2007, 3:00pm » |
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I have been using MidiYoke NT for years! It's proven invaluable when combined with MidiOx. I'm moving to a 64-bit platform and Sonar 6 64-bit version... I understand that Sonar 64 will not be able to see MidiYoke since it is a 32-bit driver. Will a 64-bit version ever be released? I will be using Vista 64, not XP 64, if that makes any difference.
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psugar
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Re: 64-bit MidiYoke ever?
« Reply #1 on: Jul 19th, 2007, 7:22pm » |
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Any chance of getting an answer to this? I'd really like to see an x64 Vista version of this - might be willing to help out with the porting if necessary.
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« Last Edit: Jul 19th, 2007, 7:23pm by psugar » |
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thx1200
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Re: 64-bit MidiYoke ever?
« Reply #2 on: Jul 19th, 2007, 8:40pm » |
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Glad somebody else but me is interested! I'll help with development too! I have Visual Studio 2005 and it's itching to compile a 64-bit app. Problem is that I'm a .Net programmer and am woefully underskilled in native apps development (especially drivers). I also heard that all x64 Windows require drivers to be signed by a certificate chained from Microsoft (to prevent driver-level viruses and also hackers from overrunning future DRM systems). Surely there's enough MidiOx/MidiYoke support to purchase a certificate (musicians are rich, right? LOL) or perhaps a way to work around this whole issue (user-mode drivers of some sort perhaps)?
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meguna
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Re: 64-bit MidiYoke ever?
« Reply #3 on: Dec 30th, 2007, 11:37am » |
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First let me say I LOVE MIDI Yoke! I use it every day. I am also very much interested in x64 support from MIDI yoke. I want to move to a 64 bit Vista system and run all from one machine so naturally MIDI yoke on 64 would be a dream come true. There is (as far as I know) only one app that currently supports x64 native apps. Its called LoopBe1 or something. The problem is - it only gives me one port. MIDI Yoke would be so much better ! Really looking forward to seeing that happen. I bet there will be a lot of interest in the community for it, especially next year since everything seems to be going 64 bit - Logic, Sonar, Gigastudio 4, Vienna, PLAY, all that...
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Jamie OConnell
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Re: 64-bit MidiYoke ever?
« Reply #4 on: Jan 1st, 2008, 7:02pm » |
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Sorry, but there are no plans to do a 64 bit verion of MIDI Yoke. The current MS 64 bit platforms SUCK! Vista 64 is worse than XP 64 IMO. I would recommend that anyone with a 64 bit machine install 32 bit XP which actually works properly (maybe as a dual boot even). It will be quite some time before 64 bit systems are a useable alternative, and I think you will find that any advantages in processing (which are pretty few, I have found) are completely offset and nulled by lack of hardware driver development and support (MIDI Yoke included). I will not spend a few months re-writing MIDI Yoke to the new Vista DDK, as anyone who wishes to install it will have to turn off UAC to accomplish this anyway. MS would never agree to certify a driver such as MIDI Yoke and I will not be attempting to do this. I have no need for x64 personally, and my time is too valuable to do this even if MIDI Yoke were a commercial product (as it is for all commercial customers). Apologies, but that is where it stands at this point... On a brighter note: Happy New Year!
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--Jamie Music is its own reward.
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thx1200
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Re: 64-bit MidiYoke ever?
« Reply #5 on: Jan 2nd, 2008, 12:26pm » |
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Wow... That very much made a very sad New Years for me. I have been using 64-bit platforms for a while now and absolutely have the opposite reaction. Sonar is solid as a rock. And the multi-CPU/64-bit aware audio engine SMOKES! And I can even run most 32-bit VST plugins just fine. There are notable broken plugin exceptions still, such as Native Instruments, but I was only demoing Kontact anyway and moved onto checking other ROMplers after seeing their hostile attitude and very misleading statement that "32 bits should be enough for anyone." The performance gains I have noticed were marginal until i started working in lower latencies when all the sudden I was getting several more simultaneous tracks without hiccups and the system just seemed more "stable" (hard to quantify) at high CPU levels, but that might partly be just Vista. Not to mention that I plan on upgrading past 4GB of RAM soon. You simply CANNOT do that in a 32-bit system. I will be able to load massive sample libraries whereas in 32-bit, guess what? 2GB max. (3GB is possible per application if you use the /3GB kernel switch, but I'm not sure ANY audio application uses that - it was designed for MS Exchange before Exchange 2007.) Vista 64-bit is pretty solid for me, but you aren't the first one to say XP 64 is more refined/stable, but I can't comment on that. However, I do know that Vista has a higher performance NTFS subsystem, ReadyBoost, less CPU burden for graphical redraws (love the Aero!) since it uses GPU acceleration, and so on and so on, which make it a compelling audio platform for the future. I haven't been using MidiOx/Yoke now for a while and have had to find other (painful) workarounds to work with the SysEx to automate my old Roland synths. I was longing for a day when a 64-bit version of the Yoke was released. Although 64-bit OS requires signed drivers, it's not exactly an act of congress to get one. It's mainly a series of form filling, testing, TIME, and the required $$$ which I am MORE THAN HAPPY to donate towards. Short of that, there is a kernel switch that disables signed-driver checking in 64-bit platforms. The only shortcoming of this kernel switch is that certain DRM subsystems won't load. (I think it bugs you with a little notice that you are in debug mode when you boot too, but it's not a low-performance mode like Safe Mode, so everything should work fine.) I would never install itune/realplayer/etc or use any other DRM thing on my music workstation anyway, so that's a moot point to me. I am currently unaware of any requirement to disable UAC to run unsigned drivers or signed drivers for that matter, so could you please elaborate on that? That would be the only shortcoming I can see. Of course, this is your project and your time, so unless it's useful to you, I can see and understand why you wouldn't bother. I was just hoping to use the Mighty MidiOx once again. It's a pain to have to do "by hand" the stuff I used to map together and quickly slice and dice in the ol' trusty Ox!!! Hopefully if LoopBe30 supports 64-bit soon, I can just buy that and use Ox with LoopBe as my patchcable. That'd be great. I'll post it here if I hear anything...
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Jamie OConnell
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Re: 64-bit MidiYoke ever?
« Reply #6 on: Jan 2nd, 2008, 1:21pm » |
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Fair enough -- I may have sounded a bit harsh. Quote:I am currently unaware of any requirement to disable UAC to run unsigned drivers or signed drivers for that matter, so could you please elaborate on that? That would be the only shortcoming I can see. |
| Not to RUN any drivers -- only to INSTALL unsigned drivers. As it happens, someone else recently posted a method to get 32 bit MIDI Yoke installed on VISTA without disabling UAC, so it may no longer be a requirement. Incidently, 32 bit MIDI-OX works correctly under x64 so there is absolutely no need for a 64 bit version. Plus it would be fairly impossible to access anywhere near a single GIG (or even 100 MB) of memory using MIDI-OX. MIDI Yoke is NOT a kernel mode driver so the driver signing rules would not really be in effect in VISTA. In fact, the modern MIDI Yoke installer does not even use the Windows Driver Installer stuff at all, but writes to registry keys directly. Having said that, I still don't have the time or inclination to re-write MIDI Yoke for a new 64bit DDK. Maybe someone (corporation) will may make it worth my while, but I am not holding my breath. Hopefully someone else will do it.
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meguna
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Re: 64-bit MidiYoke ever?
« Reply #7 on: Jan 7th, 2008, 11:15pm » |
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Wow..You seem to be really ticked at Vista 64....Well, if you see no use for it, then I certainly understand why you wouldn't want/need/bother/care etc... I think its fair to say though, that within this year (2008 ) 64 bit WILL become the norm for serious DAW stations and there will be a lot more people asking for such a solution. To be able to run massive sample templates on one machine - that's a dream come true! BTW MIDI Yoke does run on x64, however not on native 64 bit applications. Oh well... Thanks for replying and making that clear though I still congratulate you on your wonderful work on MIDI yoke though!
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Patrick Sch.
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Re: 64-bit MidiYoke ever?
« Reply #8 on: Feb 21st, 2008, 10:10am » |
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on Jan 1st, 2008, 7:02pm, Jamie OConnell wrote:Sorry, but there are no plans to do a 64 bit verion of MIDI Yoke. The current MS 64 bit platforms SUCK! Vista 64 is worse than XP 64 IMO. I would recommend that anyone with a 64 bit machine install 32 bit XP which actually works properly (maybe as a dual boot even). It will be quite some time before 64 bit systems are a useable alternative, and I think you will find that any advantages in processing (which are pretty few, I have found) are completely offset and nulled by lack of hardware driver development and support (MIDI Yoke included). |
| Jamie, I think, there are two sides to this issue. Yes, especially driver support on x64 is not yet as good as it should be, but especially for virtual instruments, x64 will definitely be the way to go on the long run, and x64 support is coming more and more from the manufacturers. I, myself, for example, have a big problem, because I want to connect http://jorgan.sourceforge.net with my notation and my sequencing software which run perfectly fine on x64 and for now, I simply cannot, because MIDI Yoke is missing. So, instead of complaining that driver support is still missing, let's show that driver support can be excellent . And if your driver would be not signed at first, this would be ok, since the signature check can be bypassed, although this is somewhat tedious. A working non-signed driver would be better than no driver.
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Regards, Patrick
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Jamie OConnell
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Re: 64-bit MidiYoke ever?
« Reply #9 on: Feb 23rd, 2008, 5:05pm » |
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I am not sure you are aware, but the 32 bit MIDI Yoke will install and run under the 64 bit OS's (providing you turn off UAC in Vista 64 before installing it -- or use the other methods outlined here). The limitation is that the driver is only seen by other MIDI 32 bit software. Since that describes almost all existing MIDI software, it shouldn't be much of a limitation. 32 bit apps run perfectly fine under 64 bit Windows, but there is no advantage to running a 64 bit platform in this case. BTW, MIDI Yoke cannot be signed as it is a user mode only driver -- there is no kernel mode component to sign. MS has refused to even consider it.
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« Last Edit: Feb 23rd, 2008, 5:10pm by Jamie OConnell » |
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Patrick Sch.
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Re: 64-bit MidiYoke ever?
« Reply #10 on: Feb 23rd, 2008, 5:12pm » |
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on Feb 23rd, 2008, 5:05pm, Jamie OConnell wrote:I am not sure you are aware, but the 32 bit MIDI Yoke will install and run under the 64 bit OS's (providing you turn off UAC in Vista 64 before installing it -- or use the other methods outlined here). The limitation is that the driver is only seen by other MIDI 32 bit software. Since that describes almost all existing MIDI software, it shouldn't be much of a limitation. 32 bit apps run perfectly fine under 64 bit Windows, but there is no advantage to running a 64 bit platform in this case. |
| Theoretically, I know this, but so far, the installer still aborted with an error here.
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Regards, Patrick
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Jamie OConnell
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Re: 64-bit MidiYoke ever?
« Reply #11 on: Feb 23rd, 2008, 5:15pm » |
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You didn't say which installer you used (or what your OS is)? I would try each of the MIDI Yoke installers, and then do a manual install if necessary.
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Patrick Sch.
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Re: 64-bit MidiYoke ever?
« Reply #12 on: Mar 3rd, 2008, 5:22pm » |
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Ok, finally, I made it. Still, a 64-bit version would be very great.
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Regards, Patrick
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Peter L Jones
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Re: 64-bit MidiYoke ever?
« Reply #13 on: Nov 7th, 2008, 6:10pm » |
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Sorry, it's suddenly struck me. Now that Kontakt 3.5 is available in true 64bit, I'm actively considering upgrading to a 64bit machine and OS. But I can't live without MIDI Yoke (and OX)! Oh no! Hmm. I wonder how well K3.5-64 would run under Linux?
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"...Playing fast around the drums is one thing. But to play with people for others, to listen to, that's something else. That's a whole other world." -- Tony Williams
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maiki
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Re: 64-bit MidiYoke ever?
« Reply #14 on: Dec 27th, 2010, 4:06pm » |
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Thank you, Jamie, for your great free apps, like MIDIYOKE! Do you still think that all 64 bit Windows OSes suck, now in 2010? Windows 7? Your employer, Cakewalk, certainly doesn't think so, as their web page (for years actually) is very strong on advocating Win64. on Jan 1st, 2008, 7:02pm, Jamie OConnell wrote:Sorry, but there are no plans to do a 64 bit verion of MIDI Yoke. The current MS 64 bit platforms SUCK! Vista 64 is worse than XP 64 IMO. I would recommend that anyone with a 64 bit machine install 32 bit XP which actually works properly (maybe as a dual boot even). It will be quite some time before 64 bit systems are a useable alternative, and I think you will find that any advantages in processing (which are pretty few, I have found) are completely offset and nulled by lack of hardware driver development and support (MIDI Yoke included). I will not spend a few months re-writing MIDI Yoke to the new Vista DDK, as anyone who wishes to install it will have to turn off UAC to accomplish this anyway. MS would never agree to certify a driver such as MIDI Yoke and I will not be attempting to do this. I have no need for x64 personally, and my time is too valuable to do this even if MIDI Yoke were a commercial product (as it is for all commercial customers). Apologies, but that is where it stands at this point... On a brighter note: Happy New Year! |
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umbilicalbungee
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Re: 64-bit MidiYoke ever?
« Reply #15 on: Feb 16th, 2011, 4:10pm » |
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I've used midi Ox and yoke for awhile now and have just upgraded to a Win 7 64bit DAW, and was also disappointed to realized that midi yolk doesn't work with 64 applications. I"m also willing to pay for a functioning 64 bit version, but sounds like chances are still low, so I did installed the trial of LoopBe30 ( http://www.nerds.de/en/loopbe30.html ). It seems to work pretty well, so its worth the $20 to me. The LoopBe1 free version is good too if you just need one port. And midi ox seems to play well with them.
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DrCoolZic
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Re: 64-bit MidiYoke ever?
« Reply #16 on: Apr 4th, 2011, 4:17pm » |
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This is interesting. I also started to play with loopbe1 that works well with 32 and 64 bits app. I actually have loopbe1 and Midi Yoke at the same time. You can route midi through Midi OX from loopbe1 to yoke outputs for 32 bits applications I just read the all thread and it seems that unfortunately we are just in the middle of the transition period for musical applications. I will never go back to 32 versions of Windows but I am having tough time as soon communication is needed between musical applications. Most of the "communication channel" do not work with 64 bits app : Midi-Yoke, VST 32/64, Rewire ... Until they all move to 64 bit I will probably stick with the 32 bits versions that all run perfectly under Windows 7 X64....
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Jamie OConnell
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Re: 64-bit MidiYoke ever?
« Reply #19 on: Jun 13th, 2011, 10:39pm » |
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Looks promising... I have really wanted to get out of this driver thing for awhile. If this thing works we're all set.
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--Jamie Music is its own reward.
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