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EdK
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Korg M1 Data Dump questions
« on: Jan 16th, 2015, 9:44am » |
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Hello all,
I have a Korg M1 that I need to backup to my PC. I have all the necessary hardware (MIDI>USB cable) and software (MIDIOX).
When I first received my M1, the battery was dead. Replaced with a new battery and loaded in the M1 factory sounds. I have since tweaked patches on the M1 and now I wish to save everything on my PC in case the battery goes dead or some other problem occurs.
I connected my M1 to my PC, performed a DATA DUMP ALL and it appears that it worked however I'm not 100% certain that it backed up everything.
The reason I question it is because when I first obtained the factory sounds, they were in a zipped file which of course I unzipped. It created numerous files named "Programs01.SYX", "Prog_Comb01.SYX", "Factory.SYX" etc.
When I first loaded the M1 with the factory sounds, I have no idea if these files were used (or any others for that matter). I'm assuming they were.
Now that I performed a Data Dump All from the M1 to the PC, I figured the dump process would create numerous files the same way but it didn't.
I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong or what. Can anyone help me?
Thanks...EdK
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Breath
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Re: Korg M1 Data Dump questions
« Reply #1 on: Jan 16th, 2015, 7:39pm » |
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Hi EdK,
System Exclusive message = Sysex is stored in a file with syx at the end.
A Sysex message is just a Sysex start byte then data then the Sysex end byte.
You can store this message in a file, but you can also have as many sysex messages in the one file. Your synth knows where the data finishes when it receives a sysex end byte.
When it receives a sysex start byte it thinks 'oh this must be a new message.'
From memory, the M1 will allow you to dump 1 program (patch) or all programs or 1 Combi or all Combis or all the data.
You might like to start naming the file based on what you have downloaded - the single patch or Combi name and the groups of data with common prefix so it is all grouped together.
P Harp1.syx
C Choir3.syx
aP First Set.syx
aC Show Act1.syx
all Factory.syx
The manual dump routine in MidiOx opens a file after you tell it what the name is and just grabs any sysex messages that come in and adds them to the file. When you press the Done button it closes the file.
You could have any number of sysex messages from any synths in the same file if you wanted to ( I use to do this for each piece I wrote so it was all in the one spot).
Of course when you send the data back you will overwrite what was there and so your edits will be lost forever so I would test your dumps by first.
Copy an edited patch to a spare patch in the M1 (call up the patch and save it to a new location) now dump just this new location's patch to MidiOx.
Reload it and see if it is the same.
As an extra precaution if you are unsure about the data, just repeat the dumps a few times to new file names so you have copies.
All the best
Royce
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| « Last Edit: Jan 16th, 2015, 7:47pm by Breath » |
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EdK
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Re: Korg M1 Data Dump questions
« Reply #2 on: Jan 17th, 2015, 6:48am » |
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Hi Royce,
Thanks for the tips. I have a followup question..
I don't use MIDI-OX very often so I'd like to make sure I've got all the options set corectly in MIDI-OX. Can you please give me a rundown of what they should be please?
By the way, I have my M1 set to Global Channel 2 instead of 1 because during a gig I use it in a multi-keyboard setup and have them chained together.
Thanks...EdK
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Breath
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Re: Korg M1 Data Dump questions
« Reply #3 on: Jan 17th, 2015, 11:09pm » |
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Hi EdK
first a gentle warning about the sysex and your setup.
The M1 SysEx Messages ...
F0 Exclusive Status
42 Korg ID
3* MIDI Global Channel *0-F = Channel1-16
19 M1 ID
ff Function Code
dd Data...
F7 End Of Exclusive (EOX)
So you can see that the third byte is the Global Channel setting.
As I recall, the factory default was channel 1 and so most of the internet patches are saved with this channel.
So if you try and download some data to the M1 and it looks to be OK, but just doesn't appear, this will be the cause. Just change the Global Channel to 1 and try again.
If you are ever unsure you can look at the data in a hex editor. PSPad is a good free text editor that when you try to load in non-text it changes to a hex editor.
As far as the MidiOx settings are concerned, older equipment had memory that was slower to write to.
So when you send a sysex dump to it you need to pause at the end before you send another message to give it time to write the data away.
Also these machines often had large blocks of data in a single sysex message, perfectly correct in the Midi spec.
MicroSoft decided that no one should ever use blocks bigger than 255 bytes (this is, of course, different from the Midi Associations specs) and built their class compliant driver to suit. As a result the interfaces that use use this driver that comes with Windows fails to work with older machinery.
Needless to say, modern computers are so fast they usually send Midi out at its fastest speed and older synths aren't always able to cope.
So it is a good idea to set up MidiOx for both a larger sysex block and a get MidiOx to delay between messages and possibly between buffers of a single message.
Gaps between the messages can mean slower dumps, so a bit of 'tuning' can be used to optimise things.
Here are my settings.
View /Sysex
Sysex /Configure...
Input Buffers 256 bytes, 16 of them
Output Buffers 1024 bytes, 64 of them
Delay after F7 = 10 mS
Delay between buffers 50 mS, but that's probably a bit long.
You will also find the same buffers in Options /Configure buffers...
All the best
Royce
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JPPieraerts
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Re: Korg M1 Data Dump questions
« Reply #4 on: Jan 21st, 2015, 10:27am » |
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Hello, I also changed my internal battery, and I'm now trying to get the sounds back. But it won't go. I go till the end of the instructions, I see the led's doing something on the cable from Midi to USB. And that's it. The sounds are not loaded. Any Idea what the problem could be?
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Breath
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Re: Korg M1 Data Dump questions
« Reply #5 on: Jan 21st, 2015, 6:12pm » |
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Hi
Did you do a factory reset as well?
Hold Int, Card and Combi while turning it on.
The most likely problems are either you have the memory protect turned on and / or the Midi channel written in your file doesn't match what your M1 is currently set at.
Have a look in the Global settings, turn off memory protect and go through each or the Midi channels settings till it works.
All the best
Royce
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| « Last Edit: Jan 23rd, 2015, 6:25pm by Breath » |
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JPPieraerts
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Re: Korg M1 Data Dump questions
« Reply #6 on: Jan 28th, 2015, 5:49am » |
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Hi Royce,
Thank you very much for your help. I did the reset, and I have the mention #29 on the display of the M1. I suppose this is the reset. Then I put on page 5-2 of the M1: Exl on enable. On page 6-1 Memory protect internal off. Then I ran trough all the 16 midi channels. But still not working. I also did the settings as you said to another person in sisex/configre. I also connected the input of the cable to the output of the M1 and the output to the input.
Any other idea to make this work?
I'm using and old desktop with Windows 7 to do this. My normal laptop is an McBook Pro. Is there something I can do with my Mac
Thanks,
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Breath
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Re: Korg M1 Data Dump questions
« Reply #7 on: Jan 29th, 2015, 7:16pm » |
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So, just to make sure I have the current state of the M1 after your battery change, the M1 is back to factory standard and it is playing the sounds OK?
You have enabled Sysex.
You have turned off memory protect.
KORG M1 Global menu ...
- MIDI GLOBAL CH = 1
- MIDI-FILTERING PRG: ena EXCL: ena
- PROGRAM MEMORY PROTECT: off
- COMBINATION MEMORY PROTECT: off
Load the file into MidiOx Sysex CommandWindow / Load File...
The text in the window should start F0 42 3x 19
F0 = start of Sysex
42 = for Korg equipment
3x = Formant ID where x = Global Midi channel
19 = this sysex message is for the M1
If you see any difference in these four numbers it mean that this sysex is not for the M1
Format ID, the 3x number ... x can be any of 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F
The factory default is 0 which is Midi channel 1 (number 30)
So I would expect the patches to have been saved in Midi channel 1 so the text should start F0 42 30 19
If not change your Global Midi channel to what ever is in the file.
NOTE that 30 = Midi channel 1, 31 = channel 2, 33 = channel 4.... 3F = channel 16
The next number should be ...
F0 42 30 19 40 = single Program dump
F0 42 30 19 4C = all Programs dump
F0 42 30 19 49 = single Combination dump
F0 42 30 19 4D = All Combination dump
F0 42 30 19 48 = All sequence dump
F0 42 30 19 51 = Global dump
Other than that I am at a loss to know why the M1 is not accepting the data.
Hope that helps.
Royce
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EdK
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Re: Korg M1 Data Dump questions
« Reply #8 on: Jun 28th, 2015, 1:58pm » |
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Hi Royce,
I'm the original poster of this thread.
I understand everything previously discussed but have a followup question.
I'm in a situation now where I will need to restore my M1 from a backup. Before I actually do this, I just want to double check that I've done everything correctly.
In my original posting, my main concern was the the size of the back up (dump) file that was created and I saved on my computer.
I have the original supplied factory sounds from Korg.
Although I never replaced any of them, I have tweaked a few Programs and Combi's to my needs.
My concern is over the sounds. The supplied factory sounds (and associated Programs, Combi's, etc) consist of numerous files. It appears that each sound is a file.
However, after performing a Data Dump All from the M1 to my computer using MIDI-OX, the syx file created is no where near the size what is supplied by Korg and it all appears to be one file....not individual files for each sound.
Am I correct in assuming that the DATA DUMP ALL function mainly saves the parameters for each sound in Program and Combi modes rather than the actual sounds themselves and when I go to restore my M1 from my backup, that I will need to first use the supplied factory sounds(files) from Korg first then restore the data stored that was saved when I performed the DUMP ALL function?
Am I making sense?
I'm a little confused by the entire process because in all of the documentation I've read and information I've read on the web, nobody really talks about any of this at this level of detail. Most information I've found on the web has only to do with restoring Korgs factory sounds and there's basically no information that discusses what (and how) everything is backed up when performing a DUMP ALL function.
Thanks....Ed
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EdK
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Re: Korg M1 Data Dump questions
« Reply #9 on: Jun 28th, 2015, 2:01pm » |
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Oh...I forgot to add-
I performed a couple different styles of backups.
DUMP DATA ALL
DUMP PROG ONLY
DUMP COMBI ONLY
DUMP GLOBAL ONLY
The sum total of PROG, COMBI, GLOBAL backups is the same size as the DUMP ALL backup but none of them are anywhere near the size of the factory
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Breath
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Re: Korg M1 Data Dump questions
« Reply #10 on: Jun 28th, 2015, 8:14pm » |
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Hi Ed.
You can save / send 1 sysex message or 100+ in a single file.
If you have a look at the 'All' file (you can open it in the MidiOx sysex widow but it's really not a big enough window. It is better to use the free PS-Pad and it will open in hex mode - you should also be able to read the patch names in the strange text on the right) you will see F0 to start and just a little way into the data you will see F7.
F0 ... F7 is a sysex message and you can have any number of them the same or different sizes in a single file.
F0 ...... F7 F0 ............F7
So when you dump an 'all' patches the sysex is saved by MidiOx to a file after you press the Done button, but you can dump each the M1 patches separately and then press the Done button and you would have the same file as the 'all' data file.
So the sum of all the small files should be the same size as the 'all' file.
This means you can have all the patches + all the combis + the global setting and anything else in the machine in the one file.
It is likely that your factory file is all the M1 data and that is why it is bigger.
If you are concerned about your files, you can at least read through the names of your presets to make sure that they are all there.
The only other ways to really check the data you have saved is with an editor like Sound Quest's Midi Quest or borrow another M1 to dump the data to and check or look at the data with the sysex manual for the M1 beside you.
All the best
Royce
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