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   DX7 and MIDI-OX help please
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   Author  Topic: DX7 and MIDI-OX help please  (Read 8843 times)
HappyFunTimes
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DX7 and MIDI-OX help please
« on: Oct 12th, 2015, 6:23pm »
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Forgive me for starting another thread like this, but I can't find a solution in any past thread. I'm usually pretty good with this stuff, but have hit a wall.  
 
Here is my current situation:
 
I am using a DX7 MK1 with the special edition rom. I am using the newest version of MIDI-OX. i am using a generic USB to midi cable. I am attempting to load Sysex banks to my DX.
 
On the DX  
 
Internal memory protect is OFF
Midi System info ON
Midi Channel 1, (I have tried Omni also)
 
In MIDI-OX
 
Pass Sysex checked
I'm able to play the DX from MIDI-OX
Notes played on DX are registering in MIDI-OX
Buffers configured to 8 bytes, Num 2, (also finishes at other settings)
active sensing messages appear when connected
 
In Sysex window I can load a syx file, and the hexadecimal displays.
 
When I go to send sysex file the progress meter goes all the way to the end, but nothing changes on the DX. Also in the Sysex window it says 0 bytes received.  
 
I have googled, and googled and searched this site. I cannot figure out what is wrong. I have tried everything I could think of multiple times. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
 
 
 
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Breath
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Re: DX7 and MIDI-OX help please
« Reply #1 on: Oct 12th, 2015, 8:14pm »
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Firstly go to View / Sysex then on the new dialog Sysex / Configure.
I would make the buffer a little bigger (256) and have a few more of them (16), but more importantly you might like add a delay after the F7 and between the butters type a large amount of say 100ms. Older synths often needed extra time to write the input buffer to memory.
 
But I think your real problem is the 'generic USB to Midi cable' at it uses Microsoft class driver that doesn't work for long sysex.
 
This is particularly a problem for older synths as their sysex messages were longer than 256 bytes (which is correct under the Midi spec. MS decided they knew better).
 
Unfortunately the solution is a USB Midi Interface that has its own  driver like the Roland or M-Audio (MidiSport) or Korg or Yamaha or Behringer (the BC2000 controllers will work).
If your USB to Midi cable is the Midisport Uno there were early problems with the drivers that were fixed, I believe.  
 
See if you can borrow one to see if that is your problem.
 
All the best
Royce
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HappyFunTimes
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Re: DX7 and MIDI-OX help please
« Reply #2 on: Oct 12th, 2015, 10:52pm »
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The cable I'm using was $4 on ebay. If I buy a used Midisport Uno might it still have driver issues? I'm looking for the cheapest option that works. Thanks.
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Breath
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Re: DX7 and MIDI-OX help please
« Reply #3 on: Oct 13th, 2015, 12:47am »
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So I guess you have tried the other settings and it looks like it is you interface.
 
My best guess is any interface with its own drivers (ie not the MS Midi class compliant drivers).
 
http://www.m-audio.com/support/drivers-search
 
The Uno looks to have a set of drivers specially written for it.
BUT it says on the pack that it is Class Compliant so perhaps it can use either.
 
I have a 2x2 and a 4x4 and a 8x8 Midisport interface and they all work.
I have a Roland FantomX and SonicCell and they work.  
I have Behringer BCR2000 and BCF2000 and they work.
I have a Yamaha Motif XS and it works.
I have a Novation UltraNova and it works.
 
The only interface I have that uses the Class compliant driver is a cheap Ebay interface that I paid $6 and it doesn't work.  
(I have an Alesis iPad Dock version 1 and it doesn't work on any sysex.)
 
The Sonic Cell can use either the Roland driver or the MS Class compliant driver (so perhaps the Uno is like that), but I have only used the Roland driver.
 
So these I know, everything else is my best guess.
 
You should install the Uno driver before plugging in the Uno USB cable so Windows doesn't install the Class compliant driver.
 
Best of luck
 
Royce
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Sonus
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Re: DX7 and MIDI-OX help please
« Reply #4 on: Oct 13th, 2015, 1:21pm »
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It does work to transmit or receive DX7 banks with the Uno and class compliant USB driver.
Verified with Windows 7, this proves once again cheap generic cables are the real problem.
Also some early Uno series had a manufacturing defect that distorted incoming MIDI data.
 
« Last Edit: Aug 20th, 2023, 9:37pm by Breath » IP Logged
HappyFunTimes
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Re: DX7 and MIDI-OX help please
« Reply #5 on: Oct 13th, 2015, 10:45pm »
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Thanks for the suggestions. I will post here again after I pick up a different interface and try it out.
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HappyFunTimes
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Re: DX7 and MIDI-OX help please
« Reply #6 on: Nov 1st, 2015, 6:28pm »
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I picked up an M-audio Midisport Uno like you suggested. I installed the drivers I found on their website before plugging it in. I fired everything up, and Voila! It works like a charm! The problem was in fact the cheap cable.Thanks again.
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Re: DX7 and MIDI-OX help please
« Reply #7 on: Nov 2nd, 2015, 6:12pm »
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Glad you got it sorted.
 
All the best
Royce Craven
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sifter604
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Re: DX7 and MIDI-OX help please
« Reply #8 on: Jan 23rd, 2020, 1:42am »
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I don't know if this is allowed, but I found that another software was able to send/receive bulk dumps from my DX7 using a generic MIDI-USB cable, while MIDI-OX was unable to.
 
In the spirit of aiding development, and helping those that already purchased another cable, take a look at Bome Send SX.
 
I may still purchase a Roland cable, as described above, to provide a more convenient interface with DEXED and other software (as some of these still don't work as intended).
 
Cheers,
Mike
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Re: DX7 and MIDI-OX help please
« Reply #9 on: Jan 23rd, 2020, 8:01pm »
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Hi
I think it is absolutely allowed as we are about helping sort out Midi problems in this forum.
I have used Bome software a bit and I have found it very good.  
Also I believe the Bome programmer, Florian Bomers, is one of the authors of the new Midi 2 specification.  
 
I have had quite a few of these 'bad' Midi Interfaces given to (thrown at ?) me and some worked a bit, some worked with errors and some not at all.
I have seen ones with a slow opto-isolator (needed in the Midi In circuit).  
I have seen them without the opto-isolator.
Bizarrely, all of them had a micro-controller more than capable of doing what is required.  
I have tried to fix them and I got one, sort of, working, but the opto-isolator was unreliable.
 
The troublesome Microsoft driver is (was?)  
1) single client (you can't have it going into MidiOx as well as your application - MidiYoke will fix this)
2) had a sysex size limit of 255 bytes - The Dx single voice dump is 161 bytes, but the 32 voice sysex dump is 4104 bytes
 
I generally recommend that people don't buy one of these interfaces.
If they have spent the $6 ( I have also seen them at $65), to prevent them from having a couple of hundred dollars of frustration, I recommend they invest in a good interface with purpose built drivers.
It will last them years.
 
If you want to try and wrestle with one, or you have no option but to use one, you might like to play around with the buffers (View / Sysex / Sysex / Configure).
Try increasing the low level input and output buffer size (in these days of computers with huge amounts of memory it could be 1024 or more but I use 256)  and the number of buffers to 32 or more.
If you have trouble importing Midi dumps into MidiOx, increase the size of the input buffer.  
At lease that is what I would recommend for a good interface driver.
As the MS driver limits the sysex to 256 bytes it doesn't seem likely it would matter if the buffers were over 256 bytes the driver is likely to cut off the last 7/8ths of the 32voice dump as it is a single sysex message. Some later synths did adjust to this MS idiocy by breaking up their dumps into blocks.
 
When the synth is not coping when receiving the Midi dump, it is more likely that too much Midi data is sent too quickly....
As the DX is early Midi tech, this could easily be the case. So you might like to slow the Midi down.  
To do this, there is a balance to be struck between the buffer size (I'm only talking about output buffer here) and delay between buffers.
 
To slow down the data you could leave the buffer size and increase the delay between buffers ie 255 byte buffer and 60mS delay.
For a 32 voice dump there is only 9 filled buffers so 9 x 60mS = 540mS wait. Half a second longer, but this still may not be enough.
If you reduced your buffer size to 128 bytes then you would have nearly twice as many buffer fills and, therefore, twice as many delays. That could fix it.
 
So smaller output buffers and/or longer delays.
 
Let me know how you get on.
 
All the best
Royce
« Last Edit: Jan 27th, 2020, 8:09pm by Breath » IP Logged
eartone
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Re: DX7 and MIDI-OX help please
« Reply #10 on: Aug 20th, 2023, 10:40am »
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Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry    HEEEELPPPPP!!!  
 
hello good! I have read all your posts and I in particular tell you about my case with my dx7 mk1. I'm already on the third usb midi cable. First I bought a Chinese otraki for 20 euros that in theory is of good quality but it didn't work for me, checking everything perfectly both at the dx and software level. I tried with my mac with native drivers and in windows and nothing, I couldn't receive sysex files in any way. So after reading them I returned the two cables to Amazon and it turns out that I bought one at my local Roland store. The um one mk2 that in theory, as it comes with its drivers, should work correctly, but after installing the drivers on both Mac and Windows, the same thing still happens to me. I don't think it's the cable anymore since I do everything with triple check both in the dx7 and in the buffer configuration and others in the software and I'm still the same as at the beginning.. I'm going crazy. I've tried several options with the programs and nothing. The only thing I need is to try with the midi interface if someone lets me do the test but it should go well with the Roland cable. any suggestions?? I'm desperate on the subject..   Cry
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Re: DX7 and MIDI-OX help please
« Reply #11 on: Aug 20th, 2023, 9:36pm »
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Sorry to hear about your troubles.
Lets take it step by step.
 
Here is a DX7 file https://yamahablackboxes.com/patches/dx7/factory/rom1a.syx for you to download.
It is from https://yamahablackboxes.com/collection/yamaha-dx7-synthesizer/patches/  I have been there quite a few times and they seem OK.
 
Connect your Midi interface to the PC and using a cable connect Midi Out to its Midi In - forming a loop.
 
With MidiOx go to the Midi Routing window (View / Port Routings...) ...
Make sure your Interface's Ins and Outs appear otherwise goto Options / Midi Devices and select them.
 
In the Midi Routing window the MIDI-OX Event Port is down on the bottom left.
Click-drag it's DIN socket picture to the similar picture next to the Output port of your interface on the right side.
 
*** Click on the SYX at the bottom right of MidiOx off and on - You need to do this every time you change the Midi routing by adding or deleting connection lines.
 
Go to View / Sysex and on the new window select File / Send Sysex File...
Select the DX file you downloaded and when you click Open the file will be sent to... your interface -> then along the cable and back in to your interface -> to the PC and MidiOx  
 
Sysex data should be shown in the Output Monitor window going to your interface and coming back in the Input Monitor from your interface.
 
If all looks OK then ...
both your interface's In and Out are fine with Sysex and you need to look at the DX's settings.
 
From Yamaha FAQ
1) Press the [MEMORY PROTECT INTERNAL] button. The display will indicate MEMORY PROTECT INTERNAL ON (default is on when the DX7 is powered up).
 
2) Press the [-1/NO] button to toggle the Memory Protect to OFF.
 
3) Press the [FUNCTION] button.
 
4) Press the 8 button until you see “Sys Info”.
 
5) Press the [YES] button so that “Sys Info Avail” is displayed
 
Connect the cable from the interface to the DX  (cables always go OUT to IN)
Send the file as above again and this time it should end up in the DX.
 
If all is well here is a link, I just noticed on the above Yamaha page, for LOTS of DX files from an old friend's website http://synthzone.com/midi/yamaha/dx7/
 
Hope this helps.
If you are still having troubles post again.
 
All the best
Royce
« Last Edit: Aug 20th, 2023, 9:38pm by Breath » IP Logged
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