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   Korg LE 61 almost runs Cool Edit via Sync
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   Author  Topic: Korg LE 61 almost runs Cool Edit via Sync  (Read 69 times)
Gary_K
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Korg LE 61 almost runs Cool Edit via Sync
« on: Nov 5th, 2018, 11:01pm »
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Hi, I know this is ancient stuff but it's good!
I can run Cool Edit beautifully initiating it with Midi Sync Transport to drive MTC Transport which drives CEP.
Then when I try to drive the setup with the Korg, I can only get the Midi Sync Transport to run.
Tried open another instance of Midi-Ox but not a go!  
So I'm trying to run Cool Edit with the Korg to keep multi track recording (which has changing tempos) in sync.
Do I need another usb cable or something.
Many thanks, here's hoping there is a solution.
Regards
Gary
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Breath
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Re: Korg LE 61 almost runs Cool Edit via Sync
« Reply #1 on: Nov 7th, 2018, 9:02pm »
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Hi Gary
You can only have one MASTER. This is normally your DAW and the CEP (I assume you are talking about the Radikal Delta Cep synth) and the Korg are the SLAVES.
 
As Cool Edit is changing its tempo you should use the DAW for everything.
I will assume that you want to sync the synth arpeggios and/or LFOs etc to the tempo.
 
You want MidiOx to be in the middle to mix sync and track data, and you will need a software Midi 'patch cable'.
There is MidiYoke by the creator of MidiOx (you can get it at the same place as MidiOx) or LoopMIDI by Tobias Erichsen.
You don't say what version of Windows you are using, but if it is early, there are other drivers you can use.
 
Get one and install it. I'll assume it is MidiYoke.
 
Start Cool Edit ...
Make your sync output to MidiYoke 1.
The Korg track output to MidiYoke 2
The CEP track to output MidiYoke 3
 
Start MidiOx ...
Options /Midi Devices...  set up MidiYoke 1 , MidiYoke 2 and MidiYoke 3 (Inputs and Outputs)
Now when you press Play  Cool Edit should send the Midi sync messages and these should be displayed on the MidiOx Input window.  
The Korg track and the CEP track should also appear in the input window.
 
Use the Midi Port Router Window to connect ...
MidiOxYoke1 Input (on the left) to both the CEP and the Korg hardware Midi interface outputs (on the right) .
MidiOxYoke2 Input (on the left) to the Korg hardware Midi interface outputs (on the right) .
MidiOxYoke3 Input (on the left) to the CEP hardware Midi interface outputs (on the right) .
 
The Sync data and Korg Track Midi will be mixed and sent to the Korg  
The Sync data and CEP Track Midi will be mixed and sent to the CEP
 
I hope I have understood what you are trying to do.
All the best
Royce  
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Gary_K
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Re: Korg LE 61 almost runs Cool Edit via Sync
« Reply #2 on: Nov 7th, 2018, 10:32pm »
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Hi Many Many Thanks for the reply.
CEP is actually Cool Edit Pro and am running on stand alone Windows XP.
I am making the Korg Triton LE the master as the multitrack instrumental piece has tempo changes.
I want to record the instruments in individual groups then process with effects on Cool Edit.
I have tried using Midi Yoke in my fiddle faddleing but the Korg somehow robs the Midi Sync Transports ability to run MTC Transport.
I Hope this clarifies things a bit and sorry for the lack of details.
Very Best Regards
Gary
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Re: Korg LE 61 almost runs Cool Edit via Sync
« Reply #3 on: Nov 8th, 2018, 8:37pm »
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Sorry, misunderstood completely.
 
If I understand correctly, you have a finished Korg song and you want to record the Korg audio to CEP as if it were a multitrack tape.
You don't need MidOx or MidiYoke
 
The quickest way is to record all the Midi tracks as if it is a performance (with tempo changes) then use those Midi tracks to record the audio in multiple passes.
 
To start (if CEP will record multiple Midi tracks at once)  multichannel Midi record, so you can record all Midi parts in one pass.
If CEP doesn't assign tracks automatically as it records, setup the correct number of Midi tracks and assign the different midi channels.
 
If this is the case, I would make up a template of 16 tracks on 16 channels so you are ready the next time you need to do it.
Start recording all the Midi tracks on CEP and then start the Korg.
 
The Midi won't be bar aligned in CEP as it is in the Korg (it won't even start at bar 1), but that won't matter as it will have the tempo changes built in.
This is like recording Midi as if it is audio to a tape.
Even though you don't need it, you can add the tempo changes into CEP and it will be close to beat aligned.
CEP may have a function to automatically add tempo changes do this for you.
 
Add the patch numbers to each of the CEP tracks.  
These will be saved to the file as well, so you can recall the song all set up.
Now you can just use the Korg as a Midi module. Turn off its external clock and MCC .
 
In CEP go through each track  ...
   solo the track
   add a new audio track and put it into record mode
   go to the start and  start recording.
As the Midi tracks are already in sync, so the audio tracks will be as well.
 
************************************************************************ *********************
 
If you can't do the above, and you need to have the Midi bar / beat aligned you will need to record it......
 synced up with Midi Clock and then add the tempo changes to CEP
or
 add the Tempos changes to CEP and sync it up with MTC
 
You will need to use MCC (Midi Machine Control)  from the Master to stop and start Slave(s).
 
 
 
You probably know that there are two sync systems in Midi.
 
MTC
MTC (Midi Time Code) this uses Hours:Minutes:Seconds:Frames and works well especially to sync to film / video and things that don't have beats and bars.
The time has to be converted to position in the music by using the current tempo and so can get complicated with the different time-codes (different number of frames per second).  
In your case the Slave sequencer needs to know the tempo changes so it can convert the MTC to beat position.
 
MIDI Clock
The simpler Midi sync just puts out a constant beat like the baton of a conductor.
This beat is called "Midi clock".
As the Master's tempo changes, it changes how fast is sends out the Midi Clock.  
 
Even when the Master is not playing, it outputs Midi Clock at the stopped (last) tempo so the slaves are ready to go when they receive a MCC Start command from the Master.
 
When you want to re-position your starting point in a song  the Master sends a Midi Song Pointer to tell the Slaves where to start from.
When CEP is set as a slave it ignores any tempo settings / changes it has in the song as it records.
That's pretty much it.
 
So, if you use MCC and Midi Clock and make the Korg the Master, CEP will change its current tempo to keep in time.  
This records the Midi beat / bar aligned.
BUT unless CEP can record the tempo changes put out by the Korg, when you press play CEP (on internal clock) will play the piece at its current tempo and without tempo changes.
You will have to add the tempo changes (or use the Korg as the Master just for its clock).
 
Phew. Pretty complicated isn't it?
 
Hope this helps
 
Royce
« Last Edit: Nov 8th, 2018, 8:43pm by Breath » IP Logged
Gary_K
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Re: Korg LE 61 almost runs Cool Edit via Sync
« Reply #4 on: Nov 8th, 2018, 10:48pm »
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Hi, I really appreciate your time and willingness to help. So thank you very much for that!
I am actually not recording midi, I'm recording audio that I have played and recorded into the Korg which is a multi track sequencer.
I want to mix these tracks in a more sophisticated way on the Cool Edit.  
I am able to run the Midi Sync Transport module from the Korg (or at least it gives the apparency of running by the numeric increment increase and the bpm folowing what's recorded on the Korg.  
As a seperate action I can run Cool Edit (using Midi Yoke) with the Midi Sync Transport being started on the computer which via Sync drives the MTC Transport module which (via a yoke) runs Cool Edit at 97% to 98% in sync.
When I try to get this all to run at the same time, only the Midi Sync Transport responds.
I hope this is a bit clearer now and thanks again.
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Gary_K
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Re: Korg LE 61 almost runs Cool Edit via Sync
« Reply #5 on: Nov 9th, 2018, 12:24am »
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Oh and the reason I’m trying to do this is that I can only record 2 tracks at a time and I want them in sync on the final mix plus there’s 12 tracks to record.  That’s the scoop the whole scoop and nothing but the scoop!
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Re: Korg LE 61 almost runs Cool Edit via Sync
« Reply #6 on: Nov 10th, 2018, 4:23am »
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Firstly, a non-sync method would be to just record each track ignoring sync then pull each track into sync.with track 1
Can CEP slide audio along the tracks and does it display a wave to show you the start?
This quick method in Sonar has go me out of problems a lot of times.
 
Does both CEP and the Korg will respond to MTC quarter Frame message F1 xx   ?
 
Don't use the Sync Transport window
 
MidiOx only outputs MTC Quarter Frame
When you look at what MidiOx puts out this is how to decode it.
 
F1  00xx yyyy where xx is the message type and yyyy is the value
 
(sorry about the the mix oh hex and binary)
 
F1 7 0abc  ab =  Frame rate  
F1 6 defg  cdefg = Hours  
 
F1 5 00ab  
F1 4 cdef  abcdef = Minutes  
 
F1 3 00ab  
F1 2 cdef  abcdef  = Seconds  
 
F1 1 bcde  
F1 0 000a  abcde = Frames  
 
If both can cope with this MTC, just use the setup I suggested in the first reply with MidiOx as the Master and both CEP and the Korg as slaves.
Ignore the stuff about mixing the midi data just connect the Midiox Event Port (Left) to both the Korg and MidiYoke 1 on the right.  
Put the Korg into external sync mode and press play and it should wait for MTC sync data.
 
Set MidiYoke 1 as the sync input into CEP and put CEP into external sync.  
Put CEP into record mode, hit play and it probably says "waiting for sync"
 
Make sure both are set to the same frame rate, say 24fps  
 
Open MidiOx's MTC Transport and set the location to 00:00:00:00 and match the Frame Rate.
Set up the Korg and CEP for the start of the Song to be  00:00:00:00
 
I remember troubles when some equipment became confused when in MTC external sync and location was set to 00:00:00:00 as the start.
If this turns out to be a problem make the Location 01:00:00:00 in MidiOx MTC and in the Korg and CEP
 
I hope I am helping and not confusing you.
Let me know how you get on.
 
Royce
 
 
 
 
 
« Last Edit: Nov 10th, 2018, 4:31am by Breath » IP Logged
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