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   priority NT-reg file causes gigastudio to hung.
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   Author  Topic: priority NT-reg file causes gigastudio to hung.  (Read 9500 times)
foh
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priority NT-reg file causes gigastudio to hung.
« on: Aug 26th, 2002, 8:27am »
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hi,
 
i had some dropouts with midi yoke.
i changed priority in the registry as supposed. (to normal)
 
but now the giga studio doesn't start anymore.
the scan disk of the giga studio (quick sound database update) is gettings so slow that it's near to hung up.
 
when i change the registry back to high priority the giga studio works fine again, but the drop outs of midi yoke goes on.
 
what to do now Huh
 
best regards,
foh
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Jamie OConnell
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Re: priority NT-reg file causes gigastudio to hung
« Reply #1 on: Aug 26th, 2002, 2:05pm »
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That's the first I've heard of this happening.  Shocked What OS are you running on?  Win NT 4.0?
 
It's possible to adjust the priorities further than just high or normal.  Here's the legend:
 
 ThreadClass
  0 = NORMAL_PRIORITY_CLASS;
  1 = HIGH_PRIORITY_CLASS;
  2 = REALTIME_PRIORITY_CLASS;
 
 ThreadPriority
  0 = THREAD_PRIORITY_NORMAL;
  1 = THREAD_PRIORITY_ABOVE_NORMAL;
  2 = THREAD_PRIORITY_HIGHEST;
  3 = THREAD_PRIORITY_TIME_CRITICAL;
 
Maybe some combination will work better for you.
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foh
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Re: priority NT-reg file causes gigastudio to hung
« Reply #2 on: Aug 26th, 2002, 3:07pm »
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i'm running XPpro.
it's the same problem on my P4 laptop and on my amd1800+ PC.
 
ok, i'll try to set the default 1/2 prijority to 0/1 and than if it will not work, to 1/1.
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dewdman42
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Re: priority NT-reg file causes gigastudio to hung
« Reply #3 on: Jan 3rd, 2003, 4:42pm »
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Did you ever get this resolved?  I am trying to find out if I should run Gigastudio on th same machine as another midi sequencer using Midi yoke or some other virtual midi cable.  Or perhaps I will have to resort to using an actual midi cable to loopback from midiout1 to midiin2.  
 
what works with gigastudio?
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foh
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Re: priority NT-reg file causes gigastudio to hung
« Reply #4 on: Jan 3rd, 2003, 11:17pm »
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yes, it works now.
 
i've tried some of the suggested settings.
but i don't remember which seeting was the working one, yet.
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Jamie OConnell
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Re: priority NT-reg file causes gigastudio to hung
« Reply #5 on: Jan 4th, 2003, 1:06pm »
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I'd be interested in finding out what settings work for you if you get a chance.  The registry key to look at is:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Multimedia\MYokeNT\Parameters
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dewdman42
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Re: priority NT-reg file causes gigastudio to hung
« Reply #6 on: Jan 4th, 2003, 1:21pm »
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ON this subject...i have been reading a lot of success stories from people using MidiOverLan on WinXp without problems.  This is the successor of MidiReplicator and it would seem they have solved whatever NT/2000/XP problems they have have been having in the past.
 
cheers
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foh
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Re: priority NT-reg file causes gigastudio to hung
« Reply #7 on: Jan 5th, 2003, 10:30am »
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parameters on my laptop
 
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Multimedia\MYokeNT\Parameters]
"MaxPort"=dword:00000008
"FeedBackDetect"=dword:00000003
"FeedBackID"=dword:00000067
"DataRate"=dword:00000800
"ThreadClass"=dword:00000000
"ThreadPriority"=dword:00000002
 
parameters on my PC
 
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Multimedia\MYokeNT\Parameters]
"MaxPort"=dword:00000008
"FeedBackDetect"=dword:00000003
"FeedBackID"=dword:00000067
"DataRate"=dword:00000800
"ThreadClass"=dword:00000000
"ThreadPriority"=dword:00000001
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kbaccki
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Re: priority NT-reg file causes gigastudio to hung
« Reply #8 on: Feb 1st, 2003, 11:19pm »
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I didn't notice dropouts, per se, but I did notice that GigaStudio is not happy when YokeNT is installed. During the first run of GStudio after install, everything's groovy, CPU usage is normal. Close GStudio and run again, GStudio now soaks 100% CPU at idle. I opened TaskInfo and saw that GStudio had, you guessed it, eight threads, each taking a slice of that 100%. GStudio will normally take 3% or so at idle. GStudio would still "work" in terms of emitting sound, but the UI would be very slow, etc. The problem went away after uninstalling YokeNT, and I verified by reinstalling YokeNT. I'm using XP Pro SP1, and I tried the last 3 GStudio point releases.  
 
I have not tried mucking with the thread class and priority settings, but I will try that right now, since I'd like to be able to use Yoke again. If lowering the thread priorities simply reduces the load from 100% to 50%, then we're not really fixing the problem -- those threads should be sitting there waiting for activity on some device queue or another, but NOT spin locking. It looks like they're spin locking. That being said, this looks to me like a GStudio problem, since I've had no other problems using YokeNT with n-track, digital orchestrator, vsampler, etc.
 
Ideally I'd like to just use the default Yoke settings to avoid the possibility of timing issues (esp. when syncing an external sequencer with n-track) and disable Yoke drivers in GStudio, since I don't need them for that. I can't figure out how to disable them though...
 
  - Keith
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Re: priority NT-reg file causes gigastudio to hung
« Reply #9 on: Feb 1st, 2003, 11:37pm »
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Forgot to mention: GStudio has this problem even if you have the MIDI input ports set to <none> in the "Hardware/Routing" tab. It apparently opens the Yoke drivers whether they're used or not.
 
To answer this question:  
 
> I am trying to find out if I should run Gigastudio on th same > machine as another midi sequencer using Midi yoke or some > other virtual midi cable.  Or perhaps I will have to resort to > using an actual midi cable to loopback from midiout1 to  
> midiin2.    
 
GStudio provides it's own MIDI devices that should show up in your sequencer as something like "Nemesys MIDI Input 1" or some such. There are two of those virtual devices. So if you're using a sequencer, you don't need any loopback device, physical or virtual, to drive GStudio from a sequencer. Just make sure "MIDI Thru" is enabled in the sequencer, set a channel's output port to the Nemesys device, etc., and keyboard input will be sent through the sequencer to GStudio while recording or not.  
 
 
 
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Jamie OConnell
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Re: priority NT-reg file causes gigastudio to hung
« Reply #10 on: Feb 2nd, 2003, 11:47am »
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Quote:
Forgot to mention: GStudio has this problem even if you have the MIDI input ports set to <none> in the "Hardware/Routing" tab. It apparently opens the Yoke drivers whether they're used or not.

 
That's really too bad (and rather inexcusable IMO) Angry This is why their only solution to customers seems to be: "Uninstall MIDI Yoke".  Perhaps enough people will complain about this, so that they will add an 'exclusion list' of drivers to leave alone.
 
 
« Last Edit: Feb 2nd, 2003, 11:51am by Jamie OConnell » IP Logged

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foh
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Re: priority NT-reg file causes gigastudio to hung
« Reply #11 on: Feb 2nd, 2003, 12:19pm »
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>> ..., since I've had no other problems using YokeNT <<
 
oh, really ?!
but i can report another bug with Midiyoke.
per default the midiyoke port is allways disabled when i start cubase SX.  
after SX has started i allways have to active the midiyoke again.  
i really don't know why SX allways disables the midi yoke again.
maybe of the same reason ?!
maybe a feedback ??
 
i don't think that memesys will work on this bug until it's sure that the gigastudio is the problem.
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Jamie OConnell
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Re: priority NT-reg file causes gigastudio to hung
« Reply #12 on: Feb 2nd, 2003, 1:10pm »
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I'm afraid I don't have any suggestions about your Cubase SX configuration, but I wanted to point out that I am not asking Nemesys to fix any bugs in their software. I am only asking them to provide users with an option to choose which drivers to use, and leave others alone. I don't think that is asking too much, but currently they require users to uninstall drivers when they don't want them used in GigaStudio.
« Last Edit: Feb 2nd, 2003, 1:15pm by Jamie OConnell » IP Logged

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Re: priority NT-reg file causes gigastudio to hung
« Reply #13 on: Feb 2nd, 2003, 1:50pm »
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Quote:
currently they require users to uninstall drivers when they don't want them used in GigaStudio.

 
 Cheesy
 
oh,
 
sure, that's a silly "solution".
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Re: priority NT-reg file causes gigastudio to hung
« Reply #14 on: Feb 2nd, 2003, 10:59pm »
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on Feb 2nd, 2003, 1:10pm, Jamie OConnell wrote:
I'm afraid I don't have any suggestions about your Cubase SX configuration, but I wanted to point out that I am not asking Nemesys to fix any bugs in their software. I am only asking them to provide users with an option to choose which drivers to use, and leave others alone. I don't think that is asking too much, but currently they require users to uninstall drivers when they don't want them used in GigaStudio.

 
I posted to the Tascam forum just today, asking a.) why would the Yoke threads be spin locking (i.e., who's responsible for blocking), and b.) what registry mods can I use to disable Yoke devices in GStudio. I tried not to push the first question in their face too much, since I still want an answer to the second! Actually, the reg entries in question are under a "Conexant" key as far as I can tell, but I haven't had any interest in mucking around with it. Maybe I'll have a go at it tonight. I'd like to get OX in the mix anyway, to see if the Yoke channels have traffic, even though they shouldn't be used.  
 
BTW, is the Yoke NT driver implemented as a "through driver"? Just curious.
 
  - Keith
 
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Re: priority NT-reg file causes gigastudio to hung
« Reply #15 on: Feb 3rd, 2003, 10:04am »
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MIDI Yoke's threads are suspended until data comes in that needs operating on.  
 
MIDI Yoke is not a 'thruing' driver as it works backwardly: it takes everything appearing at its output and re-routes it to exit from its input.  
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Re: priority NT-reg file causes gigastudio to hung
« Reply #16 on: Feb 3rd, 2003, 3:36pm »
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on Feb 3rd, 2003, 10:04am, Jamie OConnell wrote:
MIDI Yoke's threads are suspended until data comes in that needs operating on.  

 
As expected, and as observed when used with other apps such as nTrack, Digital Orchestrator Pro, vsampler, etc. The only thing I can think is that GStudio is just pumping data through the Yoke devices. And if it's doing that on the Yoke devices, then is it also pumping data through the physical MIDI devices as well? That would be bad, to say the least. Again, I have not yet hooked OX up to peek at those in/out streams...
 
And if it's not a matter of pumping garbage through the MIDI outs, then it must be a lower-level and more intricate problem.
 
on Feb 3rd, 2003, 10:04am, Jamie OConnell wrote:
MIDI Yoke is not a 'thruing' driver as it works backwardly: it takes everything appearing at its output and re-routes it to exit from its input.

 
Yeah, I mis-read the Micro$soft docs. Your explanation makes sense.
 
  - Keith
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Re: priority NT-reg file causes gigastudio to hung
« Reply #17 on: Feb 8th, 2003, 1:36am »
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A bit more info, and a workaround that fixes my problems, and possibly others...
 
As stated previously, I started a thread on the GigaStudio forum a couple of weeks back. Along with the usual "uninstall every MIDI driver that doesn't work" suggestion, an another suggested trying two alternatives to Yoke: 1.) a loopback driver that's apparently only available to SonicFoundry (if I remember correctly) customers, and 2.) a product called MIDI Matrix from NTONYX. One responder noted that the Matrix product MUST work, since the screenshot shows the Nemesys MIDI ports as an output target. Of course accessing the Nemesys ports through loopbacks has nothing to do with the problems we're talking about, but I decided to give the Matrix product a shot anyway, and it's good to have alternatives when testing compatibility and performance between products. Well, it turns out that I have the same exact problem with the Matrix loopback devices (it provides 4) as I do the Yoke devices -- particularly the 100% cpu thing. Confirms my suspicion that GStudio just does not like software loopbacks, I think because of something that GStudio is attempting to do during initialization -- e.g., determine the "status" of input drivers -- and the nature of those devices.  
 
Anyway, using MIDI-OX I did try to peek into the MIDI port activity while running GStudio, and I did not see any extraneous data flow on the Yoke ports. I'm not sure if my test setup was 100% correct, BUT in the process of testing I think I found a workaround at least to the problems that I've observed with GStudio, and possibly those of others.  
 
While testing the Matrix drivers, I was monitoring input/output one driver at a time with OX, and playing with registry settings, etc. At some point I noticed that when an input driver is left open at the time that GStudio is started, GStudio will mark the driver as "In use externally" or some such. So I decided to keep all 4 Matrix driver input sides open in OX while starting Gstudio, and voila', no GStudio problems whatsoever -- apparently GStudio just ignores those inputs that are "in use externally". Anway, CPU usage is normal, and GStudio seems to behave as it should. Of course, what this means is that you can't use loopbacks to drive GStudio, but we already knew that!
 
I have not tested the Yoke drivers specifically with this workaround, but I strongly suspect that I would achieve the same result. As well, any progam that can keep your loopback inputs open while starting GStudio should work (e.g., if using a sequencer, make sure you've enabled "keep open" options, etc.).
 
For those with MIDI dropout problems, I'd be curious to know if they still happen with this workaround using Yoke. Of course, if the point was that you were trying to use Yoke to drive GStudio in the first place resulting in dropouts, well this workaround won't help you...
 
  - Keith
 
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Re: priority NT-reg file causes gigastudio to hung
« Reply #18 on: Feb 8th, 2003, 1:45am »
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Thanks for the info.  Those are good suggestions, and I look forward to hearing others experience with trying these experiments.
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Re: priority NT-reg file causes gigastudio to hung
« Reply #19 on: Feb 8th, 2003, 1:49am »
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By the way, I am in no way trying to push the Matrix product itself as a solution to anything -- it is functionally equivalent to Yoke/OX from a mapping and filtering perspective. Yoke has an distinct advantage, however, in that Yoke provides feedback detection and Matrix doesn't (unless I've missed something). Matrix is relatively cheap, but not free.
 
  - Keith
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