Author |
Topic: I still don't get it? (Read 6973 times) |
|
Mike_Morgan
Member
MIDI-OX Rules!
Posts: 16
|
 |
I still don't get it?
« on: Sep 1st, 2006, 10:21pm » |
 Quote  Modify
|
Is there a tutorial somewhere showing me how to use midi-yoke or midi-ox? I don't know how to glue two ports together. I've read all the help files and experimented. Is there someone who can explain how this works?
How could this get any harder?
|
|
 IP Logged |
|
|
|
Mike_Morgan
Member
MIDI-OX Rules!
Posts: 16
|
|
Re: I still don't get it?
« Reply #1 on: Sep 1st, 2006, 10:23pm » |
Quote Modify
|
You'll see I've been trying for some time.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Mike_Morgan
Member
MIDI-OX Rules!
Posts: 16
|
|
Re: I still don't get it?
« Reply #3 on: Sep 3rd, 2006, 12:27am » |
Quote Modify
|
Well that pdf is nice, but I can't even get a midi file to play from within Midiox. How can I send you a picture? 390K? If you could just tell me which port to hook to what port to play one file, it might help. I have criss crossed ports all over the place to no avail. I did get the computer keyboard to generate notes, but the built in midi file player doesn't seem to do anything, or I get a message saying "device in use". I have a Wamirack Wave terminal which has 4 physical midi ins and 4 physical midi outs. I have installed 3 midi yoke devices whic show up as yoke 1, 2, and 3. Therefore, my devices screen shows 7 ins and 7 outs. How do I attach the midi player so that it ends up at a physical midi port?
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Mike_Morgan
Member
MIDI-OX Rules!
Posts: 16
|
|
Re: I still don't get it?
« Reply #4 on: Sep 3rd, 2006, 12:53am » |
Quote Modify
|
If I attach midi yoke 1 to Wami Box output 1, assign output of midi file player to midi yoke 1, shouldn't I get data transfer?
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Peter L Jones
Expert
Hit it
Gender: 
Posts: 978
|
|
Re: I still don't get it?
« Reply #5 on: Sep 3rd, 2006, 4:07am » |
Quote Modify
|
If you just want to go
[PC MIDI Out] -> [External Device MIDI In]
then you just open the PC MIDI Out in the MIDI file player. No need for MIDI Yoke at all.
If you're using MIDI Yoke to combine multiple applications into one PC MIDI Out port, you need to follow the diagram for combining stuff but you only need one MIDI Yoke junction:
[app1: MIDI Yoke Out 1]-\
[app2: MIDI Yoke Out 1]---[MIDI Yoke In 1: MIDI OX]
[app3: MIDI Yoke Out 1]-/
Then you have MIDI OX open the PC MIDI Out port connected to the external device's MIDI In.
on Sep 3rd, 2006, 12:53am, Mike_Morgan wrote:| If I attach midi yoke 1 to Wami Box output 1, assign output of midi file player to midi yoke 1, shouldn't I get data transfer? |
|
If you attached the output from
[MFPlayer: Yoke 1 Out] -> [Yoke 1 In: MIDI OX] -> [MIDI OX: Wami 1 Out]
That should work, yes, so long as you've got the patching in MIDI OX set up right.
on Sep 3rd, 2006, 12:27am, Mike_Morgan wrote:| How can I send you a picture? 390K? |
|
There's places like Image Bucket that'll let you upload images and then you can use a URL or IMG tag in a post here to link to the image.
|
| « Last Edit: Sep 3rd, 2006, 4:26am by Peter L Jones » |
IP Logged |
"...Playing fast around the drums is one thing. But to play with people for others, to listen to, that's something else. That's a whole other world." -- Tony Williams
|
|
|
Mike_Morgan
Member
MIDI-OX Rules!
Posts: 16
|
|
Re: I still don't get it?
« Reply #6 on: Nov 29th, 2006, 8:47am » |
Quote Modify
|
Is there anywhere in Illinois that I can go to take Midiox lessons? I have asked around the various studios that I know of and keyboard players and just get dumb looks. I fit into this catagory as well I guess.
For over three years I've been trying to get this application up and running with only limited (once in a great while, as if by magic) success.
My needs are simple. I use XGEdit to control a Yamaha MU100 rack module. I use Sonar as a midi player. I want to play my midi file in Sonar, while tweaking parameters in XGEdit and saving the resulting file as a new midi file, complete with my edits.
I have a soundcard with 4 physical midi ins, and 4 physical midi outs (64 available midi channels).
Sounds easy enough, but how, how, oh how is it done?
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Mike_Morgan
Member
MIDI-OX Rules!
Posts: 16
|
|
Re: I still don't get it?
« Reply #7 on: Nov 30th, 2006, 12:53am » |
Quote Modify
|
Oh my, I think it's working!!!! I am able to play sequences in Sonar while adjusting sounds in XGEdit for the very first time since Hubi's loopback device. I really blame the people at Microsoft and Cakewalk for not getting together on this, as there was never any need for Midiox to exist, except as a fix for something that shouldn't have been broken to begin with.
With Midiox, you seem to have cornered the market on an exceptional product with no competition whatsoever. You should be charging oodles for it, but you should also give more than a casual explanation of how to use it.
It's sort of like getting a computer that only speaks Chinese. You know it can do wonderful things, because you've seen other people do them, but you can't even turn it on because it didn't come with an "on" button.
All I can say is it really shouldn't be as hard as you're making it. Maybe there's no other way and I'm just too thick, but now that I have it working, my connections still don't make any sense. I will say Peter, that you're PDF led me in the right direction and got me to thinking about how I was working with Hubi ports.
Well, thanks for reading my rant, and thanks for providing the only solution available for PC midi.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Peter L Jones
Expert
Hit it
Gender:
Posts: 978
|
|
Re: I still don't get it?
« Reply #8 on: Nov 30th, 2006, 11:10am » |
Quote Modify
|
Can you explain what you did in the end?
|
|
IP Logged |
"...Playing fast around the drums is one thing. But to play with people for others, to listen to, that's something else. That's a whole other world." -- Tony Williams
|
|
|
Mike_Morgan
Member
MIDI-OX Rules!
Posts: 16
|
|
Re: I still don't get it?
« Reply #9 on: Dec 2nd, 2006, 1:16am » |
Quote Modify
|
Peter. I knew that I would have to use 2 virtual ports daisy chained together like a hardware in and thru behaved. I didn't realize I would have to script this in the port mapping to get it done.
I am only using three ports, Yoke 1 (input), Yoke 2 (output), Wami Rack 1 (hardware midi out).
Yoke 1 [input(on left side of "midi port routing" screen)]
Wami Rack 1 [output (on right side of screen)]
when I connected these two and chose Yoke 1 as midi output in my application, voila, I have output. This was fairly obvious from the start, but as you say, counter-intuitive, because midi-ox labels it as Yoke 1 INPUT! I sorta new that already from working with Hubi's Loopback.
When I attached my second application to the same Yoke 1, in parallel, the results were not good, latency, erratic behavior and so on.
I new the reasons for this had something to do with checking my applications for Thru settings, and sending sysex, but figured I'd tackle that if I could ever get my daisy chain set up.
I new I wanted my sequencer to respond to a separate midi signal and therefore neede another midi path.
This is where Yoke 2 comes in. Yoke 2 has to be set up as an output in the "midi port routing" screen. Then, application one can use it as an output. Easy enough.
The real problem for me and everyone else I'm sure is what happens next. I now have Yoke 1 and Midi Ox Event Port in the left column (input side). In the right column I have my actual hardware output port (wamiRack 1) and Yoke 2 (output side).
Having established that Yoke 1 is attached to WamiRack 1 works as it should, all I have to do is wire in Yoke 2 somehow. This is the part I still don't understand, but it works......I now attach a line from Yoke 2 (output) to Mid Ox Event Port (input side). I then attach another line from Midi Ox Event Port (input side) over to Wami Rack 1 (output side).
It would seem that the only way for midi information to pass from Yoke 2 (output), is thru the Midi Ox Event port.
I tested this configuration using Sonar as my sequencer assigned to (output) Yoke 1 and then XGEdit (my hardware synth controller software), is attached to Yoke 2 (output).
Knowing that Yoke two is now sending midi messages, I go back in to Sonar and select Yoke 2 as my midi input device. I don't understand at all why this works, but it does.
I guess what's really counter-intuitive about it is configuring one output back into another ouput, with a midi ox event filter between them.
My mind tells me that application 1 should use Yoke1 as it's output, application two should use Yoke 1 as it's input, Yoke 2 as output, and Yoke two should be connected to Hardware midi out. Not at all how it works though, is it?
As a suggestion from a guy who has literally spent years trying to get to first base with your software, I would like to see example setups using actual screenshots, some of which you did in your PDF. I am a novice at midi, but have been using sysex, instrument definitions, and sequencers for since Win95. I only recently upgraded from 98se to XP because of the fact that Hubi's doesn't work on that OS.
As your program is a graphical editor, only graphical examples truly explain the situations. Sometimes when you say things like "open a port" it means nothing. What you really mean is attach a line from point A to Point B. I'll admit most of this is over my head, but I thought I had a pretty firm grasp on midi until Midi-ox came along. I'm not trying to be disparaging, because you've done some fine work here, and I read questions from people who obviously understand what scripting is, and what you can do with mapping, but none of that is ever touched on in a manual that I've ever found. Do you learn this stuff in some college class? Are there textbooks I haven't found (and I've read a few). Is this all very apparent to someone who knows Visual Basic C++-#4?
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Peter L Jones
Expert
Hit it
Gender:
Posts: 978
|
|
Re: I still don't get it?
« Reply #10 on: Dec 2nd, 2006, 4:36am » |
Quote Modify
|
... Quote:| is thru the Midi Ox Event port. |
|
... Is that the key? I mean, if you don't connect the event port, does that stop the whole thing working? If so, I'm (again) surprised. Second time in two problems that's been the solution! I guess it comes from me not using SysEx or something..?
Oh, just to add:
The ends of MIDI Yoke cables are named after the "holes on the back of the boxes" (the ports) they plug into. So if you've got a (virtual) keyboard, you want a (virtual) cable plugged into its MIDI Out, like you would on a real keyboard. And if you've got a (virtual) synth, you want a (virtual) cable plugged into its MIDI In to trigger it, like you would on a real synth. And if you want the two connected together, the cable's got to be the same one at both ends! 
[keyboard] <-cable-> [synth]
The left-hand end of the cable is plugged into MIDI Out on the keyboard. The right-hand end is plugged into MIDI In on the synth.
Remember that MIDI OX is just another device in your MIDI "rack" - it's not part of the cable itself. It transforms MIDI messages. So it acts like a (virtual) synth in that you plug a cable into its MIDI In to send it messages and it acts like a (virtual) keyboard in that it needs another (different) cable plugged into its MIDI Out, connected to wherever the transformed messages go.
[keyboard] <-cable-> [transformer] <-cable-> [synth]
The "transformer" needs two MIDI ports connected to different cables, otherwise it's just not going to work.
Of course, MIDI OX is also a merger:
[keyboard] <-cable-\
[keyboard] <-cable-> [merger] <-cable-> [synth]
[keyboard] <-cable-(n/c)
The "MIDI OX Event port" is another source of MIDI events than the keyboard, internal to MIDI OX itself. It acts like an input, as it's a source of MIDI events. So if you want it merged onto the same output cable, you need to have it set up like that. The bottom "keyboard" above isn't connected to the merger, so it's output won't go to "synth".
(In all of the above, MIDI OX doesn't care whether the "cable" is real or virtual: it just opens the port it's connected to.)
|
| « Last Edit: Dec 2nd, 2006, 4:59am by Peter L Jones » |
IP Logged |
"...Playing fast around the drums is one thing. But to play with people for others, to listen to, that's something else. That's a whole other world." -- Tony Williams
|
|
|
JerryJorgenrud
New Member
MIDI-OX Rules!
Posts: 0
|
|
Re: I still don't get it?
« Reply #11 on: Dec 2nd, 2006, 11:53am » |
Quote Modify
|
I might be missing something but it seems you don't need MIDI-OX at all. Fom what I understand of your needs, you should be able to make two changes to simplify things. Keep your current setup but:
1) Don't open MIDI-OX
2) In Sonar change the output port from Yoke 1 to Wamirack 1
So the chain would look like this
[XGEdit] <-Yoke 2-> [Sonar] <-Wamirack 1-> [synth]
I'm not a Sonar expert but I believe you can choose to "echo" incoming sysex while it also records the sysex, allowing you to do what you stated was your intent:
"I want to play my midi file in Sonar, while tweaking parameters in XGEdit and saving the resulting file as a new midi file, complete with my edits."
Earlier you had said:
"My mind tells me that application 1 should use Yoke1 as it's output, application two should use Yoke 1 as it's input, Yoke 2 as output, and Yoke two should be connected to Hardware midi out. Not at all how it works though, is it?"
Well it is pretty close to how it works. Except, in this example you can't connect Yoke 2 to Hardware out because they are both drivers. It would be like trying to connect two MIDI cables to each other. You need an application to glue two drivers together and that's what you're using MIDI-OX for. But as stated above, you don't really need to use MIDI-OX because in your above example you would not connect the second app to Yoke 2 but instead to your hardware out port.
When you asked "If I attach midi yoke 1 to Wami Box output 1, assign output of midi file player to midi yoke 1, shouldn't I get data transfer?"
Peter gave you the right answer:
"If you just want to go
[PC MIDI Out] -> [External Device MIDI In]
then you just open the PC MIDI Out in the MIDI file player. No need for MIDI Yoke at all."
Here again you wanted to attach two drivers together (MIDI Yoke 1 and Wami Box output 1). You can't actually accomplish this. You need an application -- MIDI-OX, Sonar, etc. -- between the two.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Mike_Morgan
Member
MIDI-OX Rules!
Posts: 16
|
|
Re: I still don't get it?
« Reply #12 on: Dec 2nd, 2006, 2:22pm » |
Quote Modify
|
on Dec 2nd, 2006, 4:36am, Peter L Jones wrote:...
... Is that the key? I mean, if you don't connect the event port, does that stop the whole thing working?
) |
|
That's true, if I don't route thru the event port, it doesn't work at all.
But now I've had even greater success! And I think, Peter, you've mentioned this to me several times as well.
Actually, Jerry hit the nail on the head, I don't need Midi-Ox at all. I think my entire problem is with and "echo system exclusive" check box from within Sonar.
Having checked that box, and then the box in the drop down menu it just created labelled "WamiRack 1 Midi" Slot 1, I am able to use Yoke 1 now as both midi input for Sonar, and midi output for XGEdit. For some reason, this was never an issue before, but seems to be the ultimate answer.
Thanks guys, for all your patience and time. You are truly saints for putting up with lamers like me. You prefer Paypal, right?
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
JerryJorgenrud
New Member
MIDI-OX Rules!
Posts: 0
|
|
Re: I still don't get it?
« Reply #13 on: Dec 3rd, 2006, 9:46am » |
Quote Modify
|
I've talked you out of using MIDI-OX and now you mention Paypal? He he. We'll take your criticism of the help system to heart and possibly incorporate your ideas about screen shots. We've talked about it in the past and never got it done.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
|
User Forum ::
Powered by YaBB
Home 
Help 
Search 
Members 
Login 
Register
Reply
Notify of replies
Send Topic
Print