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beastdg18
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Sending signal back to Behringer X-Touch
« on: Nov 8th, 2023, 6:35am »
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Hi everyone, if this topic has already been discussed in the past, I'm sorry. I tried searching for related keywords but couldn't find anything.
I have a Behringer X-Touch midi mixer and I'm trying to use it to control Dot2. It's a common problem with this model that has also been reported in other forums.
Unfortunately, the mixer's motorized faders have a problem: if the mixer does not receive the sent signal back, the faders will always return to their initial position as soon as you try to move them.
To do this, in midiOX I simply selected "X-Touch" both as input device and as output device in the "midi devices" window. So, when I move the faders, the "pitchbend" signal always returns to the mixer in the form of pitchbend and prevents the faders from returning to their initial position.
However I also use midi-ox to translate the pitchbend signal into a "note-on" signal so I can use it in dot2 to control an executor via fader. dot2 in fact does not recognize the pitchbend values ​​and reads all the manual movements of the fader as a single signal that is always the same. Therefore it is necessary that the signal is of the "note-on" type. I use loopmidi to connect midiox "note-on" signal to dot2 (I selected "loopmidi port" in the output section of the "midi devices" window).
So right now I have two outputs selected: the x-touch mixer and the loopmidi port, but I would like the first to receive the untranslated signal and the second to receive the translated signal instead.  
in other words, the pitchbend signal coming from the only input (the x-touch mixer) must be sent without any translation (as pitchbend) back to the "X-Touch" output and on the contrary it must be sent translated to "note-on" to loop-midi and then to dot2.
How can I set this routing scheme?
For further clarity, the pitchbend signal is on channels 1 to 9 and bends from -8192 (0xFFFFE000) to +8188 (0x1FFC).
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Breath
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Re: Sending signal back to Behringer X-Touch
« Reply #1 on: Nov 10th, 2023, 12:00am »
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Hi  
In your Midi map the first line should have the Pitchbend going to the Pitchbend. Both should have the same Input and Output lines.
Select the "Pass original value on (Clone)"  to generate a copy of the Pitchbend message that will be passed to the next line.
 
The second line should have the same Pitchbend Input line as above to pick up the 'clone' message, but the Output line should be your note variation.
 
Click 'OK'  
If the messages are coming out in the wrong order, click on a line in the Translation Map window and  use the Up / Down buttons to swap the order of the lines.
 
Now save your Map with a meaningful name so you can insert it just in your connection on the Midi Port Routing window (click the little box on the connecting line).
 
I hope I understand correctly what you are trying to do.
If I have failed (highly possible) please post again.
 
All the best
Royce
 
 
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beastdg18
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Re: Sending signal back to Behringer X-Touch
« Reply #2 on: Nov 10th, 2023, 6:42am »
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Hi Breath, thank you so much! And thank you for the step-by-step guide: you were very clear and made me solve the problem quickly.
I don't want to waste your time, but I do have to ask you another related question.
Behringer X-Touch also has 8 rotary controls which send control change signal: first knob sends CC#16 and last knob sends CC#23.
Every time I turn the knob clockwise, the signal has value 1 while when I turn the knob counterclockwise the signal has value 65. These values ​​are the same for all 8 knobs. In this way, however, there seems to be no minimum value and maximum value within which every knob can vary: there is therefore no range of values ​​as there would be if it were a pitchbend signal, every time the knob turns in one direction, the value sent is always the same (for example CC#16 value 1 first time, second time, third time...). I hope I was clear.  
Given that when the mixer is connected to programs such as Ableton or Logic, the function of these knobs is precisely to control a parameter that varies from a minimum to a maximum value (such as gain for example), I wonder if it is possible to translate these control change signals that are always the same so that they can have increasing or decreasing values ​​(based on the direction of rotation).
As proof of the function that these controllers should have, each of them is equipped with LED indicators arranged around the knob which should progressively turn on and off in relation to the direction in which the knob is turned. It would be great if you could please find a way (a translation command I guess) to also include the operation of these LEDs.
I hope there is a solution and above all thank you in advance for the time you will dedicate to this.  
 
Since I didn't specify it before, I'm using the machine in mc mode.
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Re: Sending signal back to Behringer X-Touch
« Reply #3 on: Nov 10th, 2023, 4:59pm »
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I'm glad you sorted your first problem.
 
The next one is probably somthing can't be done easily with MidiOx if I understand what you want correctly.
 
The Mixer is putting out a standard control signal based on Mackie's HUI interface which is supported by most controllable software (and some hardware).
The MIDI messages are a 'pulse' to say the value has changed and the number, 1 or 65, shows if it is less or more.  
Usually the software will measure how fast the messages are coming in.  
If there are just a few messages coming in slowly then he number will change by 1.
As the number of messages speeds up the increment size gets bigger.
But this is up to the software to figure out.
 
Now the sad part.
To increment or decrement a value you have to know what the current value is.
MidiOx has no way of knowing the current value as it has no provision to store values unless you use the scripting function (you can use python, VB, MS script etc)
Go to the Help menu and look for "Scripting". Jamie has a few examples in different programming languages that is in the WSH directory where MidiOx was installed.
 
Although I have not used Bome Midi Translator Pro, perhaps it could do what you are looking for.
Here is Florian's address for the translator
https://www.bome.com/products/miditranslator
 
I know the BCR/BCF2000 of Berhinger fairly well and it has both a HUI mode and a 'value' mode. Perhaps the X-touch has something like this under the hood.
 
Best of luck
Royce
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beastdg18
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Re: Sending signal back to Behringer X-Touch
« Reply #4 on: Nov 28th, 2023, 5:31pm »
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Thanks so much Royce!!!I believe that is a problem that is beyond my ability to solve. Is there anyone experienced in scripting avalaible for paid consulting?
 
Last question (probably the problem is the same as the previous one, but I'll ask you to be sure). On my XTouch the buttons send momentary "note on" and "note off" signals: for example when I push the button the signal is "Note On #1 on channel 1 velocity 127" and as soon as I release the button the mixer sends a new signal "Note On #1 on channel 1 velocity 0" (=Note Off). However, I need the function of those buttons to be permanent and not momentary: for example, when I press that button the first time, a light turns on and when I press it a second time, it turns it off. Furthermore, since I use the mixer with dot2 I need the LEDs to match the actual state of the signal, so they should turn on the first time I push the button and turn off the second time.  
At the moment I have partially bypassed the problem by trivially eliminating the note off signal: I created a line where all input "note on" signals with velocity 0 are discarded. In this way I solved the problem on a functional level, because dot2 no longer sees the signal as momentary, but as permanent and furthermore, although the signal that reaches it is always the same (note on velocity 127), it automatically interprets it the first time I push the button as a "note on" and the second time as a "note off".  
However, I created another problem on a "aesthetic" level: this way the LED stays on when I release the button, but there is no way to turn it off, it stays on forever. Obviously this is not good, because two minutes of use is enough to have all the button LEDs lit.  
 
Is there a way to make the LED turn off when I press that button for the second time? In other words, can I make the LED light up when I press that button for the first time and stay on until I press that same button another time? I think the key is to translate the second "note on" signal coming from the same button into "note off", but I have no idea how to indicate to midi-ox that this translation should only occur if that button already has previously sent a "note on" signal.
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Re: Sending signal back to Behringer X-Touch
« Reply #5 on: Nov 28th, 2023, 6:46pm »
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Momentary to Toggle.
To do this you need to remember what the state of the switch is.
 'Is it off - yes - OK I'll turn it on'
Similarly 'is it on - yes - OK I'll turn it off'
Both together is 'Is it off - Yes - OK I'll turn it on - No - OK I'll turn it off'
Better 'Is it off - Yes - OK I'll turn it on - else I'll turn it off'
 
When you code you simply use 'State = Not State' (off goes to on and on goes to off)
 
As before, the trouble is MidiOx doesn't remember the state of the switch. So you need to use a script. Sorry.
 
I have an example of how to to this with a script here http://www.midiox.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=MOXScript;action=displa y;num=1657511134
 
I hope this is a good starting point for you.
 
I would have a good look at the Behringer manual as the BCR2k and the BCF2k can change the mode of all the switches - Toggle <=> Momentary
 
All the best
Royce
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